Diesel consumption too high in type IXB

Archive1 · 11-01-07, 06:01 PM

It seems to me that the fuel consumption for the type IXB is way too high. Historically R. Hardegen (U123) went 8,918 NM with only 50 NM submerged in second patrol to the US East coast (Op Drumbeat) in 1942. I tried to duplicate this: required at least 50% time submerged, surface speed ahead 1/3rd and arrived at US coast with only enough fuel remaining for 3,000 Km (not, note, 3,000 NM) - no way to get back to Lorient. Should point out that Hardegen did not refuel at sea and ran out of fuel in the approach to Lorient - entered surfaced with E engines.
I cannot comment on the type VIIs.
Any comments on how to revise diesel consumption downward?
Running GWX1.3 by the way.

ref · 11-01-07, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archive1

It seems to me that the fuel consumption for the type IXB is way too high. Historically R. Hardegen (U123) went 8,918 NM with only 50 NM submerged in second patrol to the US East coast (Op Drumbeat) in 1942. I tried to duplicate this: required at least 50% time submerged, surface speed ahead 1/3rd and arrived at US coast with only enough fuel remaining for 3,000 Km (not, note, 3,000 NM) - no way to get back to Lorient. Should point out that Hardegen did not refuel at sea and ran out of fuel in the approach to Lorient - entered surfaced with E engines.
I cannot comment on the type VIIs.
Any comments on how to revise diesel consumption downward?
Running GWX1.3 by the way.

Had you have a lot of wind in the travel? it affects fuel consumption.

Ref

11-01-07, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archive1

I tried to duplicate this: required at least 50% time submerged, surface speed ahead 1/3rd and arrived at US coast with only enough fuel remaining for 3,000 Km
Any comments on how to revise diesel consumption downward?

Surface speed of 1/3 burns more fuel; instead try 8 knots, set manually. Wheather conditions also a factor.

While running submerged uses no fuel, it does require more fuel to recharge batteries. Most, if not all, u-boats ran on the surface in mid Atlantic at the time of Drumbeat.

Archive1 · 11-01-07, 06:39 PM

Ref:
Nope, mostly quiet seas (Hardegen had terrible weather.)

von Zelda:
If I ask the Navigator to give me an estimate of distance available at present speed, frequently the answer indicates that ahead 1/3 is more efficient than ahead slow...or any manually set speeds. And yes they (UBoots) stayed surfaced most of the time, that's my point I guess. There is no way one can get to the US surfaced at any speed I can find and still have fuel to get back in SHIII...this isn't the only time I've tried it - only the first time I've posted anything on the forum. (Old hand at SH going back to SHI, BTW.)

Maybe no answer, but seems something's not correct.

Thanks for the answers from you both.

3Jane · 11-01-07, 06:48 PM

I use 8 Knots manualy set fro best fuel/range in my IXB, this drops to about 6 or 7 in slightly rougher seas. I have been to the Canadia coast after passing through the channel whilst transfering from Willhelmshaven to Lorient. head 1/3 consumes more fuel of course, but even so there should be enough to get there and back. Not sure what it could be.

Werewolf · 11-01-07, 07:01 PM

Archive1:

I have noticed the same problem and not only with the IXD2 and I have chosen to solve it by slightly adjusting the operational range upwards using the Jonesoft Tweaker

That Kilometre feature in SHIII is something that really annoys me by the way! Distance has always been measure in NM and nothing else

Archive1 · 11-01-07, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Jane

I use 8 Knots manualy set fro best fuel/range in my IXB, this drops to about 6 or 7 in slightly rougher seas. I have been to the Canadia coast after passing through the channel whilst transfering from Willhelmshaven to Lorient. head 1/3 consumes more fuel of course, but even so there should be enough to get there and back. Not sure what it could be.

I'll try it, although I think I've used most every variation of manual speeds. And if Ahead 1/3 is more 'thirsty' than Ahead Slow why does the Navigator often (frequently) respond to queries about "...distance available at current speed..." by giving greater available distance for 1/3 than for Slow? I used to intuitively believe 'Slow' must be more fuel efficient than '1/3rd', but that does not display as the fact.

[Werewolf] I have noticed the same problem and not only with the IXD2 and I have chosen to solve it by slightly adjusting the operational range upwards using the Jonesoft Tweaker.

I have the MiniTweaker program and have used it (great program!) but am unaware of an operational range adjustment utility...or maybe I just don't know where the code is that needs to be tweaked. Can you provide info on where/what it is?

Thanks to you both for the reply.

Werewolf · 11-02-07, 05:06 AM

Yeah it's a great program, all of the Jonesoft programs are

The file you need is the NSS_Uboat9b_sim.txt, then you open the "Categories" menu and choose "Diesel Propulsion", then you'll see a line called "milesSurfaced" that's the one, just alter it to another value

Werewolf · 11-02-07, 05:16 AM

Oh yeah and by the way, most economical fuel consumption has nothing to do with speed really since this will be different depending on the weather, it's the rpm that matters and appearently in real life the engines of the IXB were optimized at an rpm that would give the boat a surface speed of 10 knt probably in ideal weather, I think that a speed in the game corresponding to an rpm of 250-300 will offer the best fuel economy and thereby the longest range...at least that's my experience.

In real life most engines are optimized for best fuel performance between 70-85% of MCR (max continous rating) never by speed.....

Wolfehunter · 11-02-07, 05:22 AM

There might be another way to do it with all 3 of 9 series.

I downloaded this Type9Fuel which seems to have fixed the fuel issue. Problem is I forgot who it belonged too. It only has a IndicFuel.jpg and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file to show how to change the fuel comsumption and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file for Minitweaker to uses it for configuring

You set the new values from -0.13 to -0.086 and save. I found my traveling distance to be more realistic. I can upload it for you. Assuming I'm right about it fixing fuel issue.:hmm:

Anyhow if someone know what this is pls correct me if I'm wrong.

There was no Readme file to it.

If I'm right and then I can upload it to FF if you want.

3Jane · 11-02-07, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfehunter

There might be another way to do it with all 3 of 9 series.

I downloaded this Type9Fuel which seems to have fixed the fuel issue. Problem is I forgot who it belonged too. It only has a IndicFuel.jpg and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file to show how to change the fuel comsumption and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file for Minitweaker to uses it for configuring

You set the new values from -0.13 to -0.086 and save. I found my traveling distance to be more realistic. I can upload it for you. Assuming I'm right about it fixing fuel issue.:hmm:

Anyhow if someone know what this is pls correct me if I'm wrong.

There was no Readme file to it.

If I'm right and then I can upload it to FF if you want.

Would this give the IXB a more realistic range. I found that 23,000 Km etc at 8 Knots to be much more than the actual performance figures I have seen for a real boat of that kind.

Klaus_Doldinger · 11-02-07, 05:58 AM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123431

Archive1 · 11-02-07, 10:15 PM

Werewolf: I looked at that after my last message to the forum, just thought I'd poke around with the Tweaker - but thanks for the advice. When I opened the type IX .sim file (NSS_Uboat9b_sim.txt) with MiniTweaker I find that under Diesel Propulsion the "miles surfaced=12000". That would actually seem to be enough since it's in NM not Km. But then my experience on crossing the Atlantic is opposed to those numbers. We have no way of knowing what they are based on, of course - ie, what assumptions were made by the dev team. One could always change that to some infinite number but I really don't like to mess around with something I presume (maybe incorrectly) people with more knowledge than I have decided is proper. We'll see. I still want to get to the East coast of the US for the "Happy Times".

I agree re: Km v Nm. I doubt the sub commanders were expected to convert speed in one unit into distance in another unit. I don't understand why there is no uniformity in the program.

Wolfhunter: upload your Type9file file to me if you would, please. I'd like to play with it.

From all the comments there seems to be a huge variation in experience...not too far from probable real life actually. I think we all understand the weather issue, but the speed/rpm issue remains confused. Of course, unless Racerboy can get his new rpm regulator working, I'm not sure how we can truly manipulate rpm separate from speed. Can we? And then the screws lift out of the sea in a squall, and there you go.

Wolfehunter · 11-03-07, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Jane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfehunter

There might be another way to do it with all 3 of 9 series.

I downloaded this Type9Fuel which seems to have fixed the fuel issue. Problem is I forgot who it belonged too. It only has a IndicFuel.jpg and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file to show how to change the fuel comsumption and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file for Minitweaker to uses it for configuring

You set the new values from -0.13 to -0.086 and save. I found my traveling distance to be more realistic. I can upload it for you. Assuming I'm right about it fixing fuel issue.:hmm:

Anyhow if someone know what this is pls correct me if I'm wrong.

There was no Readme file to it.

If I'm right and then I can upload it to FF if you want.

Would this give the IXB a more realistic range. I found that 23,000 Km etc at 8 Knots to be much more than the actual performance figures I have seen for a real boat of that kind.

It was anvarts fix. I found it on his FF site.
http://hosted.filefront.com/Anvart
If anyone wants to tweak the numbers to get a better result let us know.

TheDarkWraith · 11-03-07, 10:32 AM

The RPM dial works, sort of. You can select whatever RPM you want up to 100% RPM. The problem is the needle disappears after you have clicked on another dial or out of this dials space. It's a long explanation as to why this happens and there's no way to fix it. So I'm making a new TGA background (it's not the prettiest either but it's functional) to set the ranges of the bells in color coding so at least you know that at ahead 1/3 your RPM is somewhere in this color band. If someone with JCWolf like graphic skills can take my test TGA and make it look a whole lot better then I can make an RPM dial available for everyone to use.
I'll also need new TGA dials made for port and stbd RPM (these dials will show the RPM of the port and stbd engines).

11-01-07, 06:01 PM	#1
Archive1 Commander Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Washington State south of Tacoma Posts: 462 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Diesel consumption too high in type IXB It seems to me that the fuel consumption for the type IXB is way too high. Historically R. Hardegen (U123) went 8,918 NM with only 50 NM submerged in second patrol to the US East coast (Op Drumbeat) in 1942. I tried to duplicate this: required at least 50% time submerged, surface speed ahead 1/3rd and arrived at US coast with only enough fuel remaining for 3,000 Km (not, note, 3,000 NM) - no way to get back to Lorient. Should point out that Hardegen did not refuel at sea and ran out of fuel in the approach to Lorient - entered surfaced with E engines. I cannot comment on the type VIIs. Any comments on how to revise diesel consumption downward? Running GWX1.3 by the way.

11-01-07, 06:48 PM	#5
3Jane Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: York. Northern England. Posts: 1,004 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I use 8 Knots manualy set fro best fuel/range in my IXB, this drops to about 6 or 7 in slightly rougher seas. I have been to the Canadia coast after passing through the channel whilst transfering from Willhelmshaven to Lorient. head 1/3 consumes more fuel of course, but even so there should be enough to get there and back. Not sure what it could be. __________________ Fate opposes me in vitality and morality, forced ever onward, burdened, always in shackles. So this very moment, without tarrying, pluck the quivering strings. Because fate punishes the one who plays, all lament with me. (http://hosted.filefront.com/KatherineRowan)

11-02-07, 05:22 AM	#10
Wolfehunter Crusty Capt. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,752 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 25	There might be another way to do it with all 3 of 9 series. I downloaded this Type9Fuel which seems to have fixed the fuel issue. Problem is I forgot who it belonged too. It only has a IndicFuel.jpg and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file to show how to change the fuel comsumption and NSS_Uboat9_CR.sim file for Minitweaker to uses it for configuring You set the new values from -0.13 to -0.086 and save. I found my traveling distance to be more realistic. I can upload it for you. Assuming I'm right about it fixing fuel issue.:hmm: Anyhow if someone know what this is pls correct me if I'm wrong. There was no Readme file to it. If I'm right and then I can upload it to FF if you want. __________________

11-02-07, 05:58 AM	#12
Klaus_Doldinger Planesman Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Madrid, España Posts: 198 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123431 __________________ OL zS. Siegfried Rollmann, U 108 in WaW IV, 6th war patrol with GWX 3.0 Gold (111.829 BRT) Lt zS Klaus Doldinger (U 36), 4th war patrol with GWX 3.0 Gold (50.713 BRT) SH3 Cmdr 3.1 GWX 3.0 GWX 16 Km atmosphere GWX no medals on crew GWX open hatch GWX Saint Nazaire, Schleuse and units OLC GUI 1.2.7 Thomsen´s sound Torpedo damage final Rubini´s lifeboats and debris D.i.D.

11-01-07, 06:39 PM	#4
Archive1 Commander Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Washington State south of Tacoma Posts: 462 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Ref: Nope, mostly quiet seas (Hardegen had terrible weather.) von Zelda: If I ask the Navigator to give me an estimate of distance available at present speed, frequently the answer indicates that ahead 1/3 is more efficient than ahead slow...or any manually set speeds. And yes they (UBoots) stayed surfaced most of the time, that's my point I guess. There is no way one can get to the US surfaced at any speed I can find and still have fuel to get back in SHIII...this isn't the only time I've tried it - only the first time I've posted anything on the forum. (Old hand at SH going back to SHI, BTW.) Maybe no answer, but seems something's not correct. Thanks for the answers from you both.

11-01-07, 07:01 PM	#6
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Archive1: I have noticed the same problem and not only with the IXD2 and I have chosen to solve it by slightly adjusting the operational range upwards using the Jonesoft Tweaker That Kilometre feature in SHIII is something that really annoys me by the way! Distance has always been measure in NM and nothing else

11-02-07, 05:06 AM	#8
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Yeah it's a great program, all of the Jonesoft programs are The file you need is the NSS_Uboat9b_sim.txt, then you open the "Categories" menu and choose "Diesel Propulsion", then you'll see a line called "milesSurfaced" that's the one, just alter it to another value

11-02-07, 05:16 AM	#9
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Oh yeah and by the way, most economical fuel consumption has nothing to do with speed really since this will be different depending on the weather, it's the rpm that matters and appearently in real life the engines of the IXB were optimized at an rpm that would give the boat a surface speed of 10 knt probably in ideal weather, I think that a speed in the game corresponding to an rpm of 250-300 will offer the best fuel economy and thereby the longest range...at least that's my experience. In real life most engines are optimized for best fuel performance between 70-85% of MCR (max continous rating) never by speed.....

11-02-07, 10:15 PM	#13
Archive1 Commander Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Washington State south of Tacoma Posts: 462 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Werewolf: I looked at that after my last message to the forum, just thought I'd poke around with the Tweaker - but thanks for the advice. When I opened the type IX .sim file (NSS_Uboat9b_sim.txt) with MiniTweaker I find that under Diesel Propulsion the "miles surfaced=12000". That would actually seem to be enough since it's in NM not Km. But then my experience on crossing the Atlantic is opposed to those numbers. We have no way of knowing what they are based on, of course - ie, what assumptions were made by the dev team. One could always change that to some infinite number but I really don't like to mess around with something I presume (maybe incorrectly) people with more knowledge than I have decided is proper. We'll see. I still want to get to the East coast of the US for the "Happy Times". I agree re: Km v Nm. I doubt the sub commanders were expected to convert speed in one unit into distance in another unit. I don't understand why there is no uniformity in the program. Wolfhunter: upload your Type9file file to me if you would, please. I'd like to play with it. From all the comments there seems to be a huge variation in experience...not too far from probable real life actually. I think we all understand the weather issue, but the speed/rpm issue remains confused. Of course, unless Racerboy can get his new rpm regulator working, I'm not sure how we can truly manipulate rpm separate from speed. Can we? And then the screws lift out of the sea in a squall, and there you go.

11-03-07, 10:32 AM	#15
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	The RPM dial works, sort of. You can select whatever RPM you want up to 100% RPM. The problem is the needle disappears after you have clicked on another dial or out of this dials space. It's a long explanation as to why this happens and there's no way to fix it. So I'm making a new TGA background (it's not the prettiest either but it's functional) to set the ranges of the bells in color coding so at least you know that at ahead 1/3 your RPM is somewhere in this color band. If someone with JCWolf like graphic skills can take my test TGA and make it look a whole lot better then I can make an RPM dial available for everyone to use. I'll also need new TGA dials made for port and stbd RPM (these dials will show the RPM of the port and stbd engines).