Escort depth charge expenditure permanent or not?

[goobledeygook]

Hi,

If a convoy escort runs out of depth charges, does it remain
out of depth charges for the duration of that convoy's existence
or does it somehow get resupplied with more depth
charges? I'm playing with GWX if that matters. Despite
playing this game forever, I've never been able to determine
the answer to this question.

[U301]

A good point and I have pondered this question to!
Let's hope there's a fix in NYGM.
KUrtz

[Anvar1061]

Each bomb drop installation has a logical controller "wpn_DCRack", it contains (among other things), an ammunition counter "amount" which contains the number of bombs in reserve. (DC***.sim file)Only the controller's respawn mechanism remains unclear when the ship leaves the alife zone. But when the ship is located directly near the boat, the meter works properly. The simplest installation has 24-40 bombs. We multiply by the number of installations and get the full ammunition of the ship.

[Aquelarrefox]

Originally Posted by goobledeygook

Hi,

If a convoy escort runs out of depth charges, does it remain
out of depth charges for the duration of that convoy's existence
or does it somehow get resupplied with more depth
charges? I'm playing with GWX if that matters. Despite
playing this game forever, I've never been able to determine
the answer to this question.

Yes it's matters. Gwx have less charges than nygm in general terms. In general it's most likely to lost the pings that get a dd out of ammo.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Aquelarrefox

Yes it's matters. Gwx have less charges than nygm in general terms. In general it's most likely to lost the pings that get a dd out of ammo.

On what information are you basing this statement on ? I.e., what file, etc. ?

[U301]

Originally Posted by Anvar1061

Each bomb drop installation has a logical controller "wpn_DCRack", it contains (among other things), an ammunition counter "amount" which contains the number of bombs in reserve. (DC***.sim file)Only the controller's respawn mechanism remains unclear when the ship leaves the alife zone. But when the ship is located directly near the boat, the meter works properly. The simplest installation has 24-40 bombs. We multiply by the number of installations and get the full ammunition of the ship.

That sounds good!
KUrtz

[goobledeygook]

The answer I was seeking relates to this type of situation:

1. I attack a convoy defended by a single escort.
2. Single escort damages my sub with depth charges but I notice
escort eventually uses all it's depth charges and can only make repeated dry attack runs over my boat without dropping more charges. So, I know escort is no longer a threat as far as depth charges are concerned.
3. Escort eventually gives up and hurries back to convoy.
4. I surface and repair the damage and load external torpedoes.

Now, if I choose to navigate to attack same convoy again hours
later after initial battle, will that sole escort still be
out of depth charges or do the depth charges re-spawn somehow
during interval of time between first and second combat?



And just for the hell of it, outside the game and within the
real world, were escorts historically able to replenish depth charges
while at sea and guarding a convoy? Maybe that ability depended
on daylight and weather/sea state?

[Grumpy Pete]

It's a good question. Without proof, I would believe that every time a convoy/escort spawns it does so with a full load of depth charges. I've never tested that out however.


In RL destroyers typically carried 36-50 dc's depending on class. Destroyer Escorts and Sloops could carry 120 while the typical number for a Flower Class was 75. I've never read anywhere that they could be resupplied ammo at sea. Refueling in the Atlantic is tough enough and they did do that.


Would I like to see escorts limited to historical dc load outs in SH3? Not really. The Escort AI has some serious limitations in the brains department as to figure out when to stop dropping ash cans on mackerel. Many aspects od ASW work are not modeled in the game. I wish they were but have to admit, it would have taken a LOT of coding. Escorts are somewhat nerfed by being generic in behavior so I'm fine with giving them more dc's to keep me honest.


I've modded the Active sonar system in the game to historical ranges in the past and unless you like pain, don't do it. You'll be held down for hours even in the early war because convoy effects/turbulence from explosions/ dynamic ocean environments etc are not modeled either. Weather certainly does factor in though and that's really important. For the record, early active sonar systems had a range of up to 3000 yards. In game I believe they are something like 1200-1400. They do get somewhat better as new systems come online as the war progresses though.


IMO--The current GWX system works pretty good to my liking. Nothing against other mega mods. I haven't tried them but may at some point. But it's late and I'm rambling...

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete

It's a good question. Without proof, I would believe that every time a convoy/escort spawns it does so with a full load of depth charges. I've never tested that out however.


In RL destroyers typically carried 36-50 dc's depending on class. Destroyer Escorts and Sloops could carry 120 while the typical number for a Flower Class was 75. I've never read anywhere that they could be resupplied ammo at sea. Refueling in the Atlantic is tough enough and they did do that.


Would I like to see escorts limited to historical dc load outs in SH3? Not really. The Escort AI has some serious limitations in the brains department as to figure out when to stop dropping ash cans on mackerel. Many aspects od ASW work are not modeled in the game. I wish they were but have to admit, it would have taken a LOT of coding. Escorts are somewhat nerfed by being generic in behavior so I'm fine with giving them more dc's to keep me honest.


I've modded the Active sonar system in the game to historical ranges in the past and unless you like pain, don't do it. You'll be held down for hours even in the early war because convoy effects/turbulence from explosions/ dynamic ocean environments etc are not modeled either. Weather certainly does factor in though and that's really important. For the record, early active sonar systems had a range of up to 3000 yards. In game I believe they are something like 1200-1400. They do get somewhat better as new systems come online as the war progresses though.


IMO--The current GWX system works pretty good to my liking. Nothing against other mega mods. I haven't tried them but may at some point. But it's late and I'm rambling...

I agree; the escort AI isn't very good anyway. For that matter, that's the main reason I've never even noticed if they run out of charges; none of their attacks have lasted long enough for that to happen.

[Grumpy Pete]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I agree; the escort AI isn't very good anyway. For that matter, that's the main reason I've never even noticed if they run out of charges; none of their attacks have lasted long enough for that to happen.

Yes. As far as I'm concerned it's the most glaring "issue" with SH3 because it can't be modded. I don't know who all would remember Aces of the Deep (very old subsim) but even back then escorts were smarter. If they lost contact they would do box searches and if there were enough escorts, they would even do line-abreast sweeps. If memory serves, they also did creeping attacks. I think adding behaviors like that into SH3 would require working the source code and way much more ability than I have.


Also John--I like your Clay Blair quote (from Hitler's U-Boat War?). Blair also explains why Admiral King shouldn't really be viewed so harshly for what happened during Operation Drumbeat. Those volumes are a Great read!

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete

Yes. As far as I'm concerned it's the most glaring "issue" with SH3 because it can't be modded. I don't know who all would remember Aces of the Deep (very old subsim) but even back then escorts were smarter. If they lost contact they would do box searches and if there were enough escorts, they would even do line-abreast sweeps. If memory serves, they also did creeping attacks. I think adding behaviors like that into SH3 would require working the source code and way much more ability than I have.


Also John--I like your Clay Blair quote (from Hitler's U-Boat War?). Blair also explains why Admiral King shouldn't really be viewed so harshly for what happened during Operation Drumbeat. Those volumes are a Great read!

Yes, there's no comparison between escorts in AOD vs any version of SH3. One of the main reasons I still play AOD.
Also yes, from his u-boat war series. Outstanding books in many ways.

[Aquelarrefox]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

On what information are you basing this statement on ? I.e., what file, etc. ?

It's general, some dd have less racks is the same date. Anyway this is not important, get a dd empty, and that's if only been serched by a group, is long time, long time.is much easy lost the track than support hours of hunting. And the thing escalate with time, dd hanging better asdic and much racks/k launchers and more escort.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Aquelarrefox

It's general, some dd have less racks is the same date. Anyway this is not important, get a dd empty, and that's if only been serched by a group, is long time, long time.is much easy lost the track than support hours of hunting. And the thing escalate with time, dd hanging better asdic and much racks/k launchers and more escort.

What dd's and what dates ?

[vanjast]

IIRC there was an escort resupply ship in each convoy, where the escorts could 'reload' DCs. etc. I supoose the seas had to be reasonable for this to happen.

When/if the resupply ships actually started sailing with the convoys, I'm not sure.