GER politics thread

[Jimbuna]

^ They may be holding back on NATO to equip the EU army instead

[Rockstar]

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/20...ina-dont-tell/

As to Washington’s hopes of turning NATO into an important help in confronting China, President Biden should remember the last part of Eysken’s aphorism, which was that Europe is a military worm. The only war that NATO as such has ever been engaged in has been Afghanistan, and its performance there was nothing short of pitiful. The British, French and Canadians did at least fight bravely (if ineffectively), but as to the rest, the less said the better.
As more honest European officials sometimes admitted in private, the reason for their forces being in Afghanistan was not because Afghanistan as such was of any importance for them. These forces were a kind of tribute paid to Washington to ensure America’s continued military commitment to Europe, which the Europeans regard as necessary because of a combination of fear of Russia and a total unwillingness to pay and mobilize seriously for their own defense. It therefore made perfect sense for America’s NATO allies to do the absolute minimum required to secure that goal. The same is true of the NATO plan to deploy a single warship to the Indian Ocean and Far East in support of U.S. strategy against China.

[Skybird]

^ True.

The whole article hits the nail on top. What angers me, as somebody living in Germany amongst Germans, is the endless avalanche of words, words, words, and more words. The Germans and their endless stream of announcements. Their perfect plans. Their superior intentions. Words, words, words.


If the US would call it a day and quit over Europe, Germany, I really would an could not think bad of it.

[Skybird]

The Deutsche Welle writes:



According to an analysis by the Bundeswehr think tank GIDS, Germany is hardly equipped against attacks with combat drones. This is a danger for the military, but also for the population in the event of terrorist attacks.

For their analysis, the experts from the German Armed Forces think tank GIDS examined the international market and the course of the fighting over Nagorno-Karabakh, where Azerbaijan defeated Armenia with drones last year.

"To put it very drastically: If the Bundeswehr had to fight against Azerbaijan in this specific conflict, it would hardly have had a chance," states Lieutenant Colonel Michael Karl, GIDS expert on modern warfare and new technologies. "With weapon systems that were used such as combat drones and kamikaze drones, we would not have been able to defend ourselves adequately. The lack of army anti-aircraft defense alone would have been our undoing."

The GIDS (German Institute for Defense and Strategic Studies) is a cooperation between the leadership academy of the Bundeswehr and the Helmut Schmidt University / University of the Bundeswehr in Hamburg. The institute examines security policy problems and advises politics and the military leadership.

In order to survive in a modern conflict, the Bundeswehr needs technologies that Germany basically has, but that are not used in the military. So far, the Bundeswehr has only used the unmanned missiles for reconnaissance and observation.

Allies and possible opponents have armed drones with which areas can be observed and missiles can also be fired at targets via control commands.

According to Lieutenant Colonel Karl, kamikaze drones or so-called disposable drones are themselves weapons, i.e. equipped with explosives. "Unlike a rocket, in which you enter target coordinates, these types of drones pursue their target," explains Karl. According to him, a swarm of such drones can be programmed to attack a formation of battle tanks. Drones could also learn about artificial intelligence and ultimately find their target without human control. The expert also sees the danger in the possibilities this opens up for terrorism, since the technology is now widely available. A commercially available drone can be restructured and programmed into a combat drone. "It's not just about protecting our soldiers from drones, but also about protecting the civilian population."

It is clear that the heated debate between the Union and the SPD about arming the Bundeswehr with drones has been overtaken by reality. The armament alone might no longer be enough. The Greens no longer categorically rule out the use of armed drones. With a lead of only four votes, a majority voted at the online party congress to examine the conditions for this.

[Gorpet]

After today's meeting with Biden and Putin.I think Your best course for the future of your country. Is take the money and run. Anyway it is clear the government of the USA is in shambles and we are heading towards civil war. So lets play a song for Joe and Jill. cause right now i think it's a bunch of 80 year old hippies from the 60's. That are still hell bent on getting rich keeping their families' in power and politics. Yes Jill Biden did wear her Love jacket to the G7. What was that all about? Its not climate change that is a threat to this Globe we live on.... It's the Americans. The real Dog Face Pony Soldiers.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Am i the only one who sees a problem with what happens if people believing in unhinged theories from qanon or whatever become the majority?

Probably not but you haven't proved to anyone whatever it is about their theories that is such a problem it is worth gutting everyones rights to free speech either. Just like those new age woke McCarthyites over here you're very general with your accusations, rarely mentioning specifics, but rather using ill defined scary terms like "unhinged theories", even tossing a "whatever" in there to widen the generality net even more.

Or anti vaxxers? deciding that vaccines are bad so democratically deciding to stop research and production of vaccines, and killing some hundred thousands in the process? There are more idiots and weidos by the minute after the "social" (lmao) media hand over a soap box to anyone wo likes to hear himself talking.

That's exactly what I mean. Oooh the evil "anti vaxxers", always murdering gazillions of innocents by their mere refusal to take unproven, barely, tested, rushed into production experimental drugs which may or may not be effective in preventing disease and has an increasing number of negative side effects, more cases being reported nearly every day. What savages.

Free thinking is good if people are able to think logical and resonably enough, if they only think they are right out of egoism and care for their own beliefs, criticizing anything (by lack of understanding) done by a government or medical organisations, things get ugly.

Life can be ugly. It always has, but you're talking about silencing people who don't meet a standard here. So who decides what logic is reasonable enough to be heard? Who determines that ones thinking is pure and motivated enough by all the right reasons so that what they say is suitable for public consumption? How will you prevent these new arbiters of free speech from using such an enormous power for the very same egoist reasons you want to avoid?

"Relatively small group"? From what i saw the last years a majority voted for someone who was an unhinged popstar of talk show "fame", embracing all opinions as long as the people believing them would suppport him.

Hmmm. I didn't realize that merely voting for Donald Trump automatically made one a member of one (or more) of your evil right wing organizations. Thanks for enlightening me. Is there an initiation or something because, I tell you, I got nothing from them yet. Still waiting for my barrel of Iraqi oil too.

[Catfish]

I stand to my statement that Qanon and Pizzagate believers are nuts.

That's exactly what I mean. Oooh the evil "anti vaxxers", always murdering gazillions of innocents by their mere refusal to take unproven, barely, tested, rushed into production experimental drugs which may or may not be effective in preventing disease and has an increasing number of negative side effects, more cases being reported nearly every day. What savages.

But this is not what i mean. What i wrote is that if anti vaxxers become a majority and abolish vaxxing altogether, this is not a desirable outcome.
Your freedom of dying of covid because it is all a conspiracy or you do not believe in it, is your personal decision and fate, but if you infect others by doing so there may be a problem for others, with your way of thinking and acting.

If you talk about "unproven, barely-tested, rushed into production drugs" and so on, you can surely post an example? Not even the Sputnik vaccine was "untested" Or do you mean hydroxychlor­oquine, or Trump saying that covid 19 is harmless and will be gone in summer 2020?
Imho people with the power to decide should maintain a basic knowledge or listen to their advisors, not rejecting science, perpetrating shortsighted populistic bs and killing thousands in the process.

Hmmm. I didn't realize that merely voting for Donald Trump automatically made one a member of one (or more) of your evil right wing organizations.

Trump was or is not evil, he is just a blithering but dangerous rabble rouser. I have not seen much non-trumpers believing in Qanon. Also Mrs Greene is not the brightest lamp in the political landscape.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

What i wrote is that if anti vaxxers become a majority and abolish vaxxing altogether, this is not a desirable outcome.
Your freedom of dying of covid because it is all a conspiracy or you do not believe in it, is your personal decision and fate, but if you infect others by doing so there may be a problem for others, with your way of thinking and acting.

Your argument fails on the fact that anti-vaxxers are mostly about not being forced to take vaccination. I have never heard any of them advocating that anyone who wants to take a vaccine should be prevented from doing so. Basically you have a strawman argument here. Let's see what else you got.

If you talk about "unproven, barely-tested, rushed into production drugs" and so on, you can surely post an example?

Anti-covid vaccines. All of them. None of them even existed a year ago. If that doesn't qualify as "rushed into production" and "barely tested" then you aren't being honest. What studies have been done on long term side effects? Oh that's right, there haven't been any because they haven't been around long enough to provide a result. Except that here and there people keep getting sick with complications. Mostly younger people whose danger from covid is miniscule. I guess they're going to do the full testing for us.

Not even the Sputnik vaccine was "untested"

I never said UNtested. RCFTFW dude.

Or do you mean hydroxychlor­oquine,

The same drug that has been taken by uncounted millions of people as an anti-malarial with little side effect? That's the one you support preventing people from taking or even talking about it's potential? It certainly is not dangerous for anyone to take if their doctor agrees. Whether it would have been effective as a preventative for covid I guess we'll never know, unless of course our government figures out allow it without risking proving Trump was right. They're getting their noses buried in their hypocrisy right now with their about turn on covids potential lab origins. I imagine there will be more such revelations coming too so maybe it will happen.

Trump saying that covid 19 is harmless and will be gone in summer 2020?

Just when did Donald Trump say that Covid was "harmless", and i'm assuming that you mean that he meant harmless to everyone right? Was it before or after he instituted those travel bans?

Imho people with the power to decide should maintain a basic knowledge or listen to their advisors, not rejecting science, perpetrating shortsighted populistic bs and killing thousands in the process.

Stop repeating falsehoods. Trump did not delay or hinder our nations anti-covid efforts in any way. In fact it was his initiative that got those vaccine shots out in such record time, not Bidens and certainly not the Democrats completely absorbed trying to destroy his presidency at any cost. Had the present administration been in power last year i'd bet dollars against donuts that our body count would be much, much higher. While Trump was instituting travel bans and appointing task forces the Dems were encouraging people to squeeze into subway cars and to freely move about.

Trump was or is not evil, he is just a blithering but dangerous rabble rouser. I have not seen much non-trumpers believing in Qanon. Also Mrs Greene is not the brightest lamp in the political landscape.

You haven't seen much Qanon people period. That's because their numbers are insignificant in a nation of 350 million and what there are of them are not even close to the established, regimented para-military organization that you imagine them to be. All you have seen is hyper exaggerated scare mongering by those who want to treat them as political boogeymen, much like your countries former rulers once used the Jews.

It's an old trick of tyrants to outlaw the opposition. We're seeing it attempted here. Prove me wrong.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

Your argument fails on the fact that anti-vaxxers are mostly about not being forced to take vaccination.

So, what do unvaccinated people do to others? Infect them. If you throw a stone because it is your freedom to do so, but you hit a passer-by, your freedom should be limited at least for this kind of action?

All those vaccines have been tested, thorougly and statistically significant. Even the Sputnik one. Long term effects are not yet known, as have never been when a new vaccine being introduced. Long term effects are being researched and it seems there will not be much to care about. Seems you want to talk bad of anything that takes the virus serious.

RCFTFW dude

No idea what you mean (not even google brought up anything), if it is regarding reading your text i did it and answered to it, while you abstain from answering what does not suit you.
You will never get a hundred percent effectivity and no side effects or complications with vaccine, it is almost always around 90 percent effectivits; as you said "life is ugly". Still a lot better that downplaying it and telling people it's the flu. We have had that.

re hydroxycloroquine this is maybe a fine medicament, maybe even help a bit to ease the Corona effects if you are infected. Taking it before like T. advertised has as much effect as Aspirine. Which is also a good medicament, just not helping against covid, but T. only has interests in hydroxycloroquine

Just when did Donald Trump say that Covid was "harmless", and i'm assuming that you mean that he meant harmless to everyone right? Was it before or after he instituted those travel bans?

"Trump claims 99% of US Covid-19 cases are 'totally harmless' as infections surge"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...fections-surge

"trump says covid is harmless"
916.000 results in 0,68 Seconds (Google)

Stop repeating falsehoods.

"Falsehoods", lol. I'm out of here, you may shift this to the US thread if you want.
It began with that i said false intel like denial of certain facts can be damaging if believed by the voting majority, and while this was meant for Germany the parade example of the last five years has been the US.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

"Trump claims 99% of US Covid-19 cases are 'totally harmless' as infections surge"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...fections-surge

"trump says covid is harmless"
916.000 results in 0,68 Seconds (Google)
.

If you look at U.S. statistics for 2020 and did the math you would see his 99% is a pretty damn good estimate.


Speaking of anti-vaxxers hows Germany's vaccine rollout coming along? Delta varient on the way you know and you all havent even come close to getting enough vaccine to take care of your own yet.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So, what do unvaccinated people do to others? Infect them.

By others do you mean vaccinated people? Because if so then what is the point of getting vaccinations if they do not work to protect one from infection?

If you throw a stone because it is your freedom to do so, but you hit a passer-by, your freedom should be limited at least for this kind of action?

A false analogy. It implies there is no protection from the stone when in fact to use your analogy vaccines that supposedly shield us from random stone throwing are exactly that.

All those vaccines have been tested, thorougly and statistically significant. Even the Sputnik one. Long term effects are not yet known, as have never been when a new vaccine being introduced. Long term effects are being researched and it seems there will not be much to care about. Seems you want to talk bad of anything that takes the virus serious.

They don't feel so and given the unheard of rapidity that they were invented, mass produced and distributed I can't fault their logic.

No idea what you mean (not even google brought up anything), if it is regarding reading your text i did it and answered to it, while you abstain from answering what does not suit you.

Reading Comprehension For The Freaking Win. Next time you false quote me like that I will report you. Back and forth banter is one thing but deliberate misquoting someone is plain wrong and I believe you did it deliberately so knock it off.

You will never get a hundred percent effectivity and no side effects or complications with vaccine, it is almost always around 90 percent effectivits; as you said "life is ugly". Still a lot better that downplaying it and telling people it's the flu. We have had that.

So maybe the real truth lies somewhere in between. It was more than a flu but still not the world destroying pandemic it was made out to be.

re hydroxycloroquine this is maybe a fine medicament, maybe even help a bit to ease the Corona effects if you are infected. Taking it before like T. advertised has as much effect as Aspirine. Which is also a good medicament, just not helping against covid, but T. only has interests in hydroxycloroquine

I didn't realize you were a doctor to say what is effective and what is not. Apparently some actual real doctors would disagree with you but then your corporate media will let you know what to think right?

"Trump claims 99% of US Covid-19 cases are 'totally harmless' as infections surge"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...fections-surge

"trump says covid is harmless"
916.000 results in 0,68 Seconds (Google)


"Falsehoods", lol. I'm out of here, you may shift this to the US thread if you want.
It began with that i said false intel like denial of certain facts can be damaging if believed by the voting majority, and while this was meant for Germany the parade example of the last five years has been the US.

Fine, last word to me then. The mods can do what they want but i'm fine with discussing it right here just like you and your pal Skybird like to crap up our political thread all the time.



Just remember that in actuality 99% of the covid cases ARE harmless. Most people do not even realize that they had it and in others, like myself, it was the equivalent to a case of the flu.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

If you look at U.S. statistics for 2020 and did the math you would see his 99% is a pretty damn good estimate.

So you also say it is just the flu, and don't mind a few dying. Ok.

Speaking of anti-vaxxers hows Germany's vaccine rollout coming along? Delta varient on the way you know and you all havent even come close to getting enough vaccine to take care of your own yet.

Yes, we gave it to the US and the UK, and noticed how thankful and altrustic they were, especially Johnson. Maybe thinking twice next time.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So you also say it is just the flu, and don't mind a few dying. Ok.

]


No, he said that Trumps estimate was pretty accurate. Moving your goal posts like that doesn't bolster your argument.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

By others do you mean vaccinated people? Because if so then what is the point of getting vaccinations if they do not work to protect one from infection?

No, by others i mean antivaxxers infect other people that have not yet been vaccinated, and you know exactly what i meant right from the first post.

Originally Posted by August

Reading Comprehension For The Freaking Win. Next time you false quote me like that I will report you. Back and forth banter is one thing but deliberate misquoting someone is plain wrong and I believe you did it deliberately so knock it off.

Wtf, "RCFTFW dude" is what you wrote and what no one i know of had any idea about, but please go on and tell it to the moderators.

Just remember that in actuality 99% of the covid cases ARE harmless. Most people do not even realize that they had it and in others, like myself, it was the equivalent to a case of the flu.

Then i do not understand what it is all about, 1 percent is obviously nothing, Italy and all those countries were hysterical and Trump had it all right. Must all be a bad misunderstanding or conspiracy, and China should of course never be blamed.
I propose you give away all your vaccines to the rest of the world since you do not need it.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So you also say it is just the flu, and don't mind a few dying. Ok.

No, I didnt say it was fine. Though by your own governnents lack of action, it might be something they're thinking. I said the 99% estimate was pretty damn close to being correct.

Yes, we gave it to the US and the UK, and noticed how thankful and altrustic they were, especially Johnson. Maybe thinking twice next time.

You gave it away? You never had it. Because your pathetic useless government failed to act.