The Way I See It

Julhelm,
What you and many don't know?
There was a 'sort of' attempt to include some Modders on the SH5 project.
Had the details been worked out to those Modders satisfaction?
(NO! It did not concern money!)
I'm sure it would have been a different Game from what was released.

This is all second (maybe 3rd or 4th) hand knowledge mind you.

Is far as I know? An offer was made.
It was turned down.

So Modders will work with Devs and even do it for free IF it's a fair deal.
It don't need money being exchanged.
It demands trust!
Trust, or the lack of it, destroyed what SH5 could have been.

I see the On-Line version very open to the same problem.
They will not trust or contact the Modders.
So they will fail in the same way.

[Julhelm]

Originally Posted by privateer

Is far as I know? An offer was made.
It was turned down.

So Modders will work with Devs and even do it for free IF it's a fair deal.
It don't need money being exchanged.
It demands trust!
Trust, or the lack of it, destroyed what SH5 could have been.

I see the On-Line version very open to the same problem.
They will not trust or contact the Modders.
So they will fail in the same way.

It got turned down, and always will. Even a one-man indie dev like Third Wire turns this down everytime it is suggested, and for good reason. The people who post on forums and who mod their games are in the minority. The big majority (maybe as much as 80-90%) of paying customers never go online to post on forums. So from a business perspective it would be crazy to cater exclusively to such a small niche within a niche.

As for SH5, had it had another 6 months dev time to finish features and no UBI DRM on launch it would probably have been an outstanding game. Since the online game by definition will continue to be developed over its lifetime I don't really see how it'll die like SH5.

Finally I would like to point out to you that the most commercially successful online games of the last 5 years have all been absolutely closed to modders.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

It got turned down, and always will. Even a one-man indie dev like Third Wire turns this down everytime it is suggested, and for good reason. The people who post on forums and who mod their games are in the minority. The big majority (maybe as much as 80-90%) of paying customers never go online to post on forums. So from a business perspective it would be crazy to cater exclusively to such a small niche within a niche.

It isn't a question of catering to a small niche, it is a matter of listening to the most dedicated and knowlagable players. You presume that the customer base is devided into a small group of forum posting users who want one thing, and a much larger group of casual players who want something entirely different. I think input from this forum would result in a better game for everyone, if only Ubi would listen.

As for SH5, had it had another 6 months dev time to finish features and no UBI DRM on launch it would probably have been an outstanding game. Since the online game by definition will continue to be developed over its lifetime I don't really see how it'll die like SH5.

But it never got that 6 months dev time or much else really. Ubi may say SHO will be developed over it's "lifetime", but how long will that be? Most likely, Ubi will pull the plug as soon as they see it doesn't fit in with their 'get rich quick' business model.

[PL_Andrev]

Originally Posted by TorpX

it is a matter of listening to the most dedicated and knowlagable players.

Meeh! Wrong answer!
The "most dedicated and knowlagable" players are not important gruop with current business model - because it is a small group of players.
It means:
Release product as cheap as possible,
Show as advanced as possible,
Sell as much as possible (trailers, trade marks).

Do you see the place for modders? I'm not.

But it is not so bad how it looks. We still have independent, small developers from 'third world' f.e. Eastern Europe, Russia, India or China.
Hope that success of "World of Tanks" shows the new & correct way to new online sims (and sub / navy sims) in future.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The best case I expect - people new to subsims to Google it and stumble upon Subsim.com, and then find SH3/4/5 and mods.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

The best case I expect - people new to subsims to Google it and stumble upon Subsim.com, and then find SH3/4/5 and mods.

Agree.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Most likely, Ubi will pull the plug as soon as they see it doesn't fit in with their 'get rich quick' business model.

SH5 is a precedent of this mentality being a reality. It is not an "if" it will happen, it is a "when".
There have also been times where I have wondered if an ancillary reason for making SHO was to intentionally shut out the modders because, to be honest, the modders keep showing up Ubisoft by fixing bugs the execs refused to allow its now former dev team to repair.

[Julhelm]

It's a completely different business model, though. With a free-to-play game you cannot simply shut down development unless you want the game to die. UBI aren't stupid. You don't become one of the big 4 mega-publishers by being retarded. They have a franchise and they want to keep it a viable means of making a profit.

Originally Posted by Julhelm

It got turned down, and always will. Even a one-man indie dev like Third Wire turns this down everytime it is suggested, and for good reason.

What you fail to understand is that the offer CAME from Ubi!
Not the other way around.

[Julhelm]

Originally Posted by privateer

What you fail to understand is that the offer CAME from Ubi!
Not the other way around.

Really? So why was it turned down by the modders?

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Really? So why was it turned down by the modders?

It's all third or fourth hand info so I'm not sure the offer was infact a real offer or just a 'what do Modders think about this idea' kind of thing.


I don't believe there was ever a follow up on the whole idea probably because the Modders did not jump on it without questions.

Other then that? I have no more information I can reveal under threat of death.


I do know that some certain people are watching me on this topic though.


They will be The Men in Black should I vanish at some point.


Just know that not all is as it appears at times.


I also like your renders done in Marmoset Tool Bag.
It's a nice handy program at times.
Nice models!

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Really? So why was it turned down by the modders?

AFAIK, it was a 'proposal' that came from some of the Ubi devs on the SH5 project (who were on good terms with the Subsim community),
I get the impression that after they approached the individual modders, they then presented their proposal to the legal & management folks, and somewhere along that road, it got shot down.
Got to see it from their point of view I suppose, collaberating with uncontracted, unpaid & unmanaged volenteers, outside of the controlled development enviroment. Thats got to be a legal & logistical minefield for a big fish like Ubisoft, who want to do everything by the book.
It was a nice idea with the best of intentions, but one it seems, that was never actually going to be allowed to happen.
Maybe if SH5 had been produced by someone like Valve (in the late 90's), it might have been different.