US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[FeatsOfStrength]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

If you were really a lawyer (and objective) as you claim, you would know the burden of proof is solely on the party pushing impeachment.

POTUS is innocent until proven guilty and does not have to provide any defence until the Dems prove their case.

POTUS was validly elected in 2016, if you are going to remove a duly elected President less than one year before the next election, you need a pretty serious reason.

Here the Dems cannot even prove that: 1) what they say happened even in fact happened (i.e. no factual proof, beyond hearsay and conjectures); and 2) even if we accept that what they say happened did in fact happen, exactly what laws POTUS has violated.

The Dems case is so weak and obviously politically motivated, that the GOP strategy to ridicule and ignore it is the only sensible course of action.

A crime does not need to have been committed to qualify a president's actions as impeachable misconduct, and i'd argue there is legal credibility to the witnesses and the information they have presented (You'll notice I pointed out that there are exceptions to Hearsay that are admissible). I'm hardly an expert on US Constitutional Law though, and I know any opinions I hold are open to change... which is more than can be said for a few of the posters in this thread who seem to be taking this whole thing rather personally.

There's not really any point posting further, taking the time to deconstruct peoples arguments here and attempting to have a discussion reminds me of a dog chasing it's tale.

[Skybird]

The "turbulent" seventies directly lead to the crisis today, its not two different crisis, its just one. It spend the past decades to fully unfold to its present status. Reminds of the currency cirsis. There they too speak of eve rnew fiance crisis. Its just one.



Demiocrats have begun a battle today that they canot win. Not only have they no chance to win in senate, in fact they now openly agree to play the game by the rules of "Who plays polarization the loudest?" And the master palyre of this game and its rules is not a Demcorats, but its the lil boy in the white House, he excelles in polarizaiton more thn anyone else.


The next presidential elections, by all what can currently be forseen and said, are already won for the Republicans. The Democrats are too weak, to incapable themselves, too left and too reality-denying. Their candiates illustrate that. Lil cesar is not one bit better than any of them. Its just that he can polarise the masses better than any of the Democrats can.



And thus my logical conclusion: everything must and will get worse.



Yes, america will prevail. But it aleady now is a radically different America than it was decades ago, and 20 years ago. Not to see this, actually denying it, is what feeds the bitterness on both sides of the trenches.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by FeatsOfStrength

A crime does not need to have been committed to qualify a president's actions as impeachable misconduct,

True, but what has been clear from the beginning of this administration is that given the Senate seats, POTUS could only be removed if there was bi-partisan support.

It was also clear that Republicans would only vote to remove a Republican President if there was actual evidence that the current President committed a crime. Absent that proof, it is clear that this effort was doomed to failure from the start.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

It was also clear that Republicans would only vote to remove a Republican President if there was actual evidence that the current President committed a crime.

Wrong. The Republican speaker in the Senate was crystal clear on that from beginning on: he said he does not care for evidence and what the truth is, he said, and his party would support Trump NO MATTER WHAT.

Evidence, reason, argument, logic - it all plays no role here. Its no judical procedure, but a political stage show. Evidence, character, integrity - it all plays no role anymore. If you ask the benefitting gang members whether their boss is a sait not a villain and leave the question of whether he gets sent to jail or not to them - then its clear what you get as a verdict.

Morally the cause is just and proven. Yes, the lil' boy should be given the boot. But moral plays no role here. Evidence plays no role here. Its political cage fighting. Anything goes. The lil boy slobbers and balks everyone to death.

We should send the whole political caste to sort of global hunger games. The survivor who wins is allowed to live on in a locked cage made of pure gold.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Wrong. The Republican speaker in the Senate was crystal clear on that from beginning on: he said he does not care for evidence and what the truth is, he said, and his party would support Trump NO MATTER WHAT.

Evidence, reason, argument, logic - it all plays no role here. Its no judical procedure, but a political stage show. Evidence, character, integrity - it all plays no role anymore. If you ask the benefitting gang members whether their boss is a sait not a villain and leave the question of whether he gets sent to jail or not to them - then its clear what you get as a verdict.

Morally the cause is just and proven. Yes, the lil' boy should be given the boot. But moral plays no role here. Evidence plays no role here. Its political cage fighting. Anything goes. The lil boy slobbers and balks everyone to death.

We should send the whole political caste to sort of global hunger games. The survivor who wins is allowed to live on in a locked cage made of pure gold.

None of the articles of impeachment should give anyone the boot. Obstructing Congress? Abuse of power? Follow along please:

It seems like every time they dig a little deeper, James the leaker Comey pops up. Pay attention to his lies. He claims he was not involved in the FBI's most important investigation. Which just happened the spying on Trumps campaign. Same guy who refused to prosecute Hillary.

If you think there was no bias at the FBI, do me a favor. Substitute Trump for any other President or Presidential candidate in the text messages between Strock and Page.

Of the 17 errors in the FISA application, were there any mistakes in favor of Trump?

Why didn't the FBI tell the FISA court that the Steele Report was funded by the DNC?

Why didn't they tell the court that Carter Page was working for the CIA? That is why he had contact with Russians.

I know half the country does not like Trump...I get it. Now you know why he didn't trust our own intelligence community. The plants that were left over from the previous administration should have been fired on the first day. They put party over country.

If Hillary was elected as they thought she would be, all of this would never see the light of day. Here we are....

WE ARE BEING LIED TO.

[MaDef]

WE ARE BEING LIED TO.

No....... Congress would never stoop that low, would they?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Wrong. The Republican speaker in the Senate was crystal clear on that from beginning on: he said he does not care for evidence and what the truth is, he said, and his party would support Trump NO MATTER WHAT.

It may come as a surprise to you but these people are politicians. And impeachment does not take place in a court of law. It takes place in Congress. The people who accuse and defend are not lawyers or judges they are politicians. The people who will decide are not a jury chosen from the public but politicians voted into office. So what you will get as sure as the sunrise is a political outcome.

Impeachment is designed to fail except under the most obvious reasons. This doesn't seem to be one of them. But even if it was people should look at the last impeachment effort for a refresher in political loyalty. Clinton was impeached in the House of Representatives for perjury and the obstruction of justice. At that time there were 45 Democrats in the Senate. They voted 45 to 0 to acquit on both charges. Are you surprised?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by MaDef

No....... Congress would never stoop that low, would they?

Lower then whale crap on the ocean floor.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by u crank

It may come as a surprise to you but these people are politicians. And impeachment does not take place in a court of law. It takes place in Congress. The people who accuse and defend are not lawyers or judges they are politicians. The people who will decide are not a jury chosen from the public but politicians voted into office. So what you will get as sure as the sunrise is a political outcome.

Impeachment is designed to fail except under the most obvious reasons. This doesn't seem to be one of them. But even if it was people should look at the last impeachment effort for a refresher in political loyalty. Clinton was impeached in the House of Representatives for perjury and the obstruction of justice. At that time there were 45 Democrats in the Senate. They voted 45 to 0 to acquit on both charges. Are you surprised?

Nope!

However, these clowns have advised they will look to continue to impeach if this one fails.

[August]

Well the FISA court has made a statement on being lied to by the FBI.

In a rare public order Tuesday, the chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court [FISC] strongly criticized the FBI over its surveillance-application process, giving the bureau until Jan. 10 to come up with solutions, in the wake of findings from Justice Department Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz.
The order, from the court's presiding judge Rosemary M. Collyer, came just a week after the release of Horowitz's withering report about the wiretapping of Carter Page, a former campaign adviser to President Trump.
"The FBI's handling of the Carter Page applications, as portrayed in the [Office of Inspector General] report, was antithetical to the heightened duty of candor described above," Collyer wrote in her four-page order. "The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fis...e-public-order

[em2nought]

Yahoo! Four more years!

[Reece]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...trump-n1103576

[Jimbuna]

In all honesty I can only see the impeachment strengthening his position and popularity.

[Bilge_Rat]

Yup, the only thing this will do is energise the base and turn more independents towards re-electing POTUS.

This is further proof, if any was needed, that the Dems in Congress are now just puppets of the looney left. They are so afraid of a primary challenge to their left that they will just blindly do whatever the socialist mob wants, consequences be damned.

The odds of GOP keeping the Presidency and regaining control of the House just went up.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Of the 17 errors in the FISA application, were there any mistakes in favor of Trump?

Yeah, that's hard to overlook.