The Creation vs Evolution debate thread...

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Is this church tax thing still going on?

As far as i know, that is still going on. But then again, I haven't paid taxes in Germany for 4 years. Got a letter from the Tax agency a year after I left the country, though.. stating that I owe Church Taxes.. lol

Actually the law in Germany requires everybody with an income to pay a certain amount of "Church Tax", which is nothing but a membership fee. You can get around that by officially leaving your church.

As Sky isn't a church person then what does he pay in church tax? Nothing.
Oh look

In Germany, church tax is mandatory

errrrr....

If you want not to pay that, you have to leave the church.

Its mandatory if you choose it...which means its not mandatory.
Which is why Skys rant about having to the pay taxes was rubbbish as he doesn't have to.

If people know I do not deal with them anymore (and Tribesman has not been left in unawareness) and do not read them and have deleted their displaying of posts they made - why don't they have one final loud ranting about me, give me a load of cosy names and then simply leave me alone...? Wouldn't this be clever?

Just because someone uses an ignore feature it does not entitle them to write rubbish without it being addressed.
What would be clever is if you could actually handle topics and not have to invent "facts"

[Safe-Keeper]

Enjoy Christ's gift to you of a day off tomorrow.

Yeah, 'cause people totally weren't celebrating Yule already when the Christians arrived...

As long as you're not prepared to kill for your God, I see no real problem. It's your life, you decide how to live it. I know I don't think as you, but that's just me

Mhm. Believe what you want, doesn't matter so long as you don't get hurt . The Judea-Christian religions aren't for me, but I realize they are enriching other peoples' lives.

For example, if one got seriously ill and was to pray while hospitalized... no problem.
Cancer patient praying instead of getting hospitalized... problem.

[Task Force]

Ya know... this religion stuff isnt too bad... I got 2 and weeks off of school cause of it.

[August]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Cancer patient praying instead of getting hospitalized... problem.

Problem for who? And what do you propose to do about solving that problem?

[Safe-Keeper]

Ya know... this religion stuff isnt too bad... I got 2 and weeks off of school cause of it.

There's no question that many religious figures have contributed greatly to the moral codes of their time.

Of course, this doesn't make the supernatural part any more true:p.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by August

Problem for who? And what do you propose to do about solving that problem?

I am inclined to agree with August here, a person should be free to choose him or herself weather to get medical treatment or to do nothing productive.

[Onkel Neal]

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by August

Problem for who? And what do you propose to do about solving that problem?

It's a problem for this kid:

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle...rksUUUycaEacyU

And it was a problem for this kid, who died because his parents exercised their First Amendment rights to be morons:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/06/us...n-science.html

[Platapus]

Is the solution that all children must be raised Atheist until they reach the age of majority?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Is the solution that all children must be raised Atheist until they reach the age of majority?

Neither this - nor indoctrinate them with fantasy ideology and doctrine-based agendas.

Must the grass been told how to grow, and fishes been shown how to swim in water? Save the kids from all this indoctriantion and intoxication, save them from too much of our oh so wonderful consummerism and civilisational poisoning, and when they have grown old enough to ask questions, refer to thse questions and show them how they could find their own answer. and often, under these circumstances, you will find that then they start to think about ethics and philosophy all by themselves.

It is one of the biggest lies being told that religion is a preconditon for developing ethics and morals, and altruism. We see altruistic behavior and social cooperation even in chimps, several birds, and in other higher animals species, mammals and birds. None of them has ever heared of Jesus, or Buddha, or Islam, or atheism - stop thinking in these damn ideologic terms and categories, avoid them like a poison (that you do not wish to just replace with another poison). Like you have left behind playing with shovel and sand and plastic moulds, leave behind these terms and ideologies as well. they represent an evolutionary state that you, as adults of the 21 century living in the Western world, can be expected to have advanced beyond, and have left behind. You also do not believe in Santa Claus anymore, and that the stork is bringing the babies.

Du musst das Leben nicht verstehen

Du musst das Leben nicht verstehen,
dann wird es werden wie ein Fest.
Und lass dir jeden Tag geschehen
so wie ein Kind im Weitergehen von jedem Wehen
sich viele Blüten schenken lässt.

Sie aufzusammeln und zu sparen,
das kommt dem Kind nicht in den Sinn.
Es löst sie leise aus den Haaren,
drin sie so gern gefangen waren,
und hält den lieben jungen Jahren
nach neuen seine Hände hin.

Rainer Maria Rilke

[August]

Humans are neither plants nor fish but instinct only goes so far. Mammals by and large teach and demonstrate just about everything to their offspring.

If parents, and hopefuly their children, are making a decision based on facts, and thought, that's one situation, and the state is limmitted in it's ability to intercede.

If the decision making process has been subverted to some nonsensicle ideoligy, THAT is an entirely different situation, and the state has a duty to intercede. Nobody should be endangered in the name of somebody elses beliefs.

I don't see a "one size fits all" solution. Each case must stand on it's own merrits.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

If parents, and hopefuly their children, are making a decision based on facts, and thought, that's one situation, and the state is limmitted in it's ability to intercede.

If the decision making process has been subverted to some nonsensicle ideoligy, THAT is an entirely different situation, and the state has a duty to intercede. Nobody should be endangered in the name of somebody elses beliefs.

I don't see a "one size fits all" solution. Each case must stand on it's own merrits.

Interesting that you would use the word "fact" when discussing a religious decision which may be based on "faith".

One person's nonsensical ideology may be another person's deep faith.

Who gets to decide what is "nonsensical Ideology" and what is "sensible Ideology"?

Originally Posted by Platapus

Interesting that you would use the word "fact" when discussing a religious decision which may be based on "faith".

One person's nonsensical ideology may be another person's deep faith.

Who gets to decide what is "nonsensical Ideology" and what is "sensible Ideology"?

Facts, and circumstances are of the physical word.
Ideoligy is generaly not of the physical world.

Issueing some-one else a death sentence, "in the name of god", is not a good idé.