[REL] Recog Manual-Trading Speed for Length

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Brigs

Hi U-Bones,
Krupp's JP Ship Dimension Mod data was, in fact, used as the 'base' data for this. I did have it installed while making the changes, so there's no problem with overwriting those config files.

Beautiful ! It was not clear to me in the original readme that his data was being used. Thanks for the clarification, and for the JSGME repackage.

Here is a point to consider however... if your mod is used standalone, then the *.sim files he modified to match the cfg files are missing...

[Hitman]

I also wondered if the sinus scale in your tutorial could somehow be added to the tools on the Nav map ? I don't know anything about graphics stuff, so don't know if it's even possible.

I *think* it *could" eventually be added to the attack map in the same way the nomograph was added to the normal map in mods like RFB:hmm: Since the sinus scale is a read-only device and you do not need to plot lines across, it could well fit there. Another alternative would be to modify the cover of the manual, or if the size allows it, add it in the lower part of the default background page so it is visible in all targets (The rec. manual uses only one archive as background, that is also the one darkened in some mods).

[Fingle Bill]

Originally Posted by Brigs

Seems like the sim gets the actual speed info from the sim files, and doesn't really care what values are in the config files.

Hi Brigs

Great mod

Just noticed one oddity in the museum after applying your mod. Looks like the speed of the ships in the museum is taken from the config files, causing some of the larger ships to plough into the sea due to their new super speeds.:rotfl: The new length is being taken as the speed of the ship. Submersible fleet carriers ftw Definitely livens up the museum.

Fingle

[Brigs]

Welcome aboard, Fingle Bill.

Good catch. Looks more like boat races than a museum now.

I'm glad you found that. It's been bugging me why the speed values would be in the config files, but not apparently used anywhere. At least now we know. I never go to the museum, so never would have seen that.

Let me ask you.....assuming the museum ships can't be slowed down, and given the choice between having either ship's length info in the logbook or a correctly functioning museum, which would you prefer ?

For now, I'll just make a note about that in the readme so people at least know what to expect.

Thanks

[Fingle Bill]

Originally Posted by Brigs

Welcome aboard, Fingle Bill.

Thank you Brigs. Im a long time lurker on these forums since SHII, thought it was about time to become a captain

Originally Posted by Brigs

Let me ask you.....assuming the museum ships can't be slowed down, and given the choice between having either ship's length info in the logbook or a correctly functioning museum, which would you prefer ?

To be honest, i cant remember why i was in the museum in the first place, but would definitely prefer the Recog manual tweaks over the museum. Adding Hitman's AOB sinus scale into the manual would just be the icing on the cake.

[FLank_Sinatra]

If I use this will it tell me the ship length in meters? by using the ship length / by time to cross the scope x 2 I get the speed in knots ex:

135meter length/53 seconds = 2.5 Meters per second x 2 = 5 knots.


How can I do this with feet instead of meters if it doesn't work?

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by FLank_Sinatra

If I use this will it tell me the ship length in meters? by using the ship length / by time to cross the scope x 2 I get the speed in knots ex:

135meter length/53 seconds = 2.5 Meters per second x 2 = 5 knots.


How can I do this with feet instead of meters if it doesn't work?

If you're using the Imperial system with Feet... here's what I use:

Divide as per usual... length in Feet/time.

Then multiply by 0.6 - that will give you approximate knots. As always either be heading right at them or not moving for best results.

[don1reed]

Flank, the measurements you're using are "rough" guesstimates.

the real formulae are these:

Metric:

Meter / secs. x 1.96 (not 2) = speed in knots.
1852 m = 1 nm
3600 sec = 1 hr., then, 1852/3600 = .51, then 1/.51 = 1.96
Imperial:

Yards / secs. x 1.78 = speed in knots.
2026 yds. = 1 nm
3600 sec = 1 hr, therefore 2026/3600 = .56, then 1/.56 = 1.78

in both cases, 1.96 or 1.78 are usually used because its time-honored thought that multiplication is easier than division.

[Brigs]

Originally Posted by FLank_Sinatra

If I use this will it tell me the ship length in meters?

No, the logbook will show ship length in feet.

If using the scope to estimate speed, I do exactly what NefariousKoel said.
As don1reed pointed out, though, the key word here is 'estimate'. The calculated estimates aren't exact. They are, however, plenty good enough to get the job done.

Originally Posted by Hitman

So I would suggest that you modify the manual to actually replace the mast height (Unless it breaks the stadimeter) with the aspect ratio. So you can have the aspect ratio directly for AOB, and the length for the speed measurement.
If that fails, could the AR be added behind the lentgh in the same line?

Didn't have a lot of time last week, but I did check this out. Yep, replacing the mast height definitely breaks the stadimeter.

I'm certain the AR can get added, just not in the same way that I replaced the speed. Right now I'm taking some time to study these files and figure out how all this stuff fits together. Definitely want to add the A/R, plus had a couple more ideas about things for the logbook. Hopefully, there will be some progress soon.

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Brigs

Didn't have a lot of time last week, but I did check this out. Yep, replacing the mast height definitely breaks the stadimeter.

I'm certain the AR can get added, just not in the same way that I replaced the speed. Right now I'm taking some time to study these files and figure out how all this stuff fits together. Definitely want to add the A/R, plus had a couple more ideas about things for the logbook. Hopefully, there will be some progress soon.

If you replace the mast height in both the cfg and the sim files, nothing is broken. I tried to point this out earlier. This mod should only be used on top of Krupp's JP Ship Dimension Mod.

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Here is a point to consider however... if your mod is used standalone, then the *.sim files he modified to match the cfg files are missing...

cfg and sim files need to agree on data they have in common.

Warning.
If you do trade speed with length, you DO change ships speed (try this - change it to 500, open mission editor and you will see that you can set speed of that ship up to 500 kts! (speed max=500 kts). Now, that could be the problem if game has scripted (go to max speed) instead of (go to speed=32)...




I have tried to add length and aspect ratio to rec. manual with 1024_768.ini file.. no luck. I can't add new Item ID...

Insted, I have found temp solution

[Hitman]

Good idea placing it behind the name of the ship. Does it actually show later in your list of sinkings also? That's why I fear:hmm:

yes, but I don't mind
imo It's better than having to look at printed data...
P.S. It would be best to add it to rec. manual as extra data (in 1024_768.ini file).
Anyone know how to link new "Item ID" for length with data in shipname.cfg?
I have done everything else that is needed in 1024_768.ini and menu.txt files...

[MudMarine]

Skippers,
I know we are looking for exact range but is it realistic? I made a copy of Submarine Torpedo Manual, Dated May 1950.

From Page 31 of Manual, section 5-7
(h) The following points should be kept in mind in height determinations:

(1) Masthead heights may be purposely altered by enemy to cause inaccuracies in periscope range.

(2) Tops of the mast may be camouflaged in such manner as to be invisible under average visibility conditions at any except short range.

(3) Funnel height is normally sufficient to insure thats smoke which is blown in direction of the bridge by a tail wind will pass well over the bridge.

(4) Coal burners require taller funnels to insure adequate draft.

(5) Funnels of modern vessels having forced draft do not require as tall a funnel as older vessels without forced draft.

(6) Diesel propelled ships require no draft. Funnels are normally short, are not required, and generally have such dimenstions as to provide a good appearance on the ship.

Regardless of the methods employed by individual Approach Officer, skill in estimating masthead heights, and the ability of to obtain accurate ranges can be acquired and maintained onlyby constant practice. Even when radar ranges are available during an approach the Approach Officer should also obtain telemeter ranges as a means of improving and maintaining his skill.


From reading this I find that those sub skippers in WWII had a problem with range determination also. It was only with the advent of good radar and the telemeter that accurate ranges could be determined in 1950. So fine tuning things that accuracy for this simulation realy making it 100% reallistic.

[Brigs]

Well, here's what I've got so far.





Reworked stuff to keep as much good info in the logbook as possible, while not screwing up any data anywhere else. The zeros obviously need to be replaced with valid numbers, and that's my sticky point right now.....haven't yet figured out how to move the additional data from the files to the screen.

I know data can be 'changed' in the sim files, but can data also be 'added' to the .sim files ? If so, can someone point me to something that might show 'how' it can be added ?

Thanks