New Rig.. off topic

C DuDe · 06-22-08, 05:23 AM

Hi,

I'm currently thinking of buying a new rig but it's bin 5years since I had the pleasure of doing so. I'm a bit lost in the maze of goodies.

This is what I'm thinking of:

Case : (big tower yet to be determined)
Power : Chieftec CFT-1200G-DF (1200watts 80% capacity)
Mobo : XFX Nvidia Nforce 790i SLi (1333MHz)
Processor : 2Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9450 (1333MHz)
Processor Coolers : (No idea at all but it has to be up to the task)
Additional Coolers : (No idea at all but it has to be quiet)
Vid.Card : Nvidia 9800GX2 (as this card is... well a bit expensive, I would like to know if there's a card which performs about the same but costs less)
Memory : (Brand yet to be determined) 2GG cas/ras 9.9.9 (1333Mhz)
Hardisk : 750GG Maxtor DimondMax 22
Sound Card : Non (as I have a Plantronics Game headset which is awesome)

I'm not interested in overclocking just want a stable rig that will work for the next 5 to 8 years.

This rig is around 1500,00 euro's which is just a coupple of 100,00 euro's over my budget.

Is there somenone who can give me an idea of what to buy for the things marked in RED & GREEN or has other or additional ideas?

Thx for replying,

CD

antares81 · 06-22-08, 08:59 AM

I have a 9800GX2,
Be absolutely sure that you have a huge case for this card, as it is very very large.
I had to make some modifications to my case and to my south bridge heat sinks for this card to fit. ( though I would think that your mobo would fit it)
Good ambient cooling is a must. The 9800GX2 can sometimes idle between 72C - 78C.

I would also consider getting a power supply with 1X 12V rail.(and this is up for debate)
It should be at least 32A, but most decent supplies can put out 52A and above on the 12V.

1200Watts means nothing to the video card, stability is all about stable amperage.
Several people have not been able to get the best results with multi-rail power supplies, I am one of them.

So in short, the 9800GX2 kicks ass, but you usually have to make some concessions to get it to work properly.

Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer. They had none in stock, so was forced to send me a 9800GX2.
With the current drivers, I notice almost no difference in performance at this time.

I would use any Zalman CNPS cooler. They look ridicules but are very effective. Also pretty easy to install compared to the crappy intel stock cooler.

Ishigami · 06-22-08, 10:49 AM

I wouldn’t recommend a multi GPU solution like CF/SLI or multi GPU card. I think it is better to rely on a single GPU card.
Multi GPU solution like CF, SLI or multi GPU cards suffer from the same problems. They need a good driver to be effective and this varies from game to game and even then they all suffer from micro stuttering which ruins partly the performance advantage.
I feel buying e.g. the new GTX 260 is more appropriated (maybe too expensive). Depending on the game it’s as fast as or even faster than a 9800 GX2 and has no micro stuttering.
Yet the new Radeon 4870 which will soon be released could be an alternative. No physic acceleration but Dx10.1 which will result if support by game in a better AA.

The next thing is that I think an SLI board is unnecessary. As I do not consider SLI as an option a board for it is of course a waste. CPU from Intel runs best on a chipset by Intel. Even if not faster they are more stable.

As for the CPU cooler I recommend a tower cooler form Noctua. They are quiet and effective. I recommend the NH-U12P. You may want to consider changing the shipped NS-P12 fan to a NF-S12 fan if you want to further optimize the noise level.
The NF-S12 is also the fan I recommend for the case, these are really quiet. They also have 80mm fans if necessary but that’s only a NF-R8.
Noctua Homepage: http://www.noctua.at

A 1200 watt power unit is oversized by far. For this PC without SLI or CF a 500 to 600 watt power unit is enough. You could save about 50 to 100€. I’m not telling you to buy cheap one the power unit is very important and most time it’s not considered accordingly BUT it’s just that you never will need 1200 watt.
Good power units would be the Enermax Liberty or Infiniti series in my opinion.

As for Quad Core CPUs most games do not take advantage of it at all. I bet the fastest Core 2 Duo will be faster in all games than this quad.
I thereby recommend the Core 2 Duo E8500 which will save another 100€.
Remember: A FASTER 3D ACCELERATOR IS BETTER THAN A FASTER CPU!
You better spend this 100€ on your GPU than on the CPU.

UnderseaLcpl · 06-22-08, 12:02 PM

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

antares81 · 06-22-08, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

Judging by his taste in hardware, I would suspect that he wants to be able to play all the newest games. That is something that a Mac just can't offer.

C DuDe · 06-22-08, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antares81

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

Judging by his taste in hardware, I would suspect that he wants to be able to play all the newest games. That is something that a Mac just can't offer.

For his next PC he might want to go to www.alienware.com

. I've bin thinking about it but came to the conclusion that the shipment cost would be to great as I live in Europe.... not to mention getting it through Customs without them noticing it

and having to pay additional tax over it.

C DuDe · 06-22-08, 02:45 PM

@ antares81

[Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer.]
I presume your talking about this card : (brand in this case: PNY) GeForce 8 8800GTX PCI-E 768MB.
Or are you talking about a different card?

@ Ishigami

[I feel buying e.g. the new GTX 260 is more appropriated (maybe too expensive)]
Are you talking about those?
XFX GeForce GTX 260 ,896MB, DDR3, PCI Express (going for €327,60)
Leadtek GeForce GTX 260 ,DDR3, PCI Express x16 (going for €348,60)
Which in any case is cheaper then the 9800GX2 (cheapest going for €390,00)

I hope you don't mind, I've visited so many sites and read so many articles, I'm getting lost in the maze called PC building.

I came up with this rig:

Case : NZXT Zero Tower
Power : PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad CrossFire Edition
Mobo : MSI X48 Platinum (not quite happy about this one though) any recommandation whould be appreciated.
Processor : Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8500 (considering your input Ishigami)
Processor Coolers : Zalman CNPS 8700NT (odd thing, I was already looking at those coolers antares81).
Additional Coolers : Not needed as the case has 7 of them already (120mm)
Vid.Card : on of the above mentioned GTX 260
Memory : Corsair DIMM 2 GB DDR3-1333
Hardisk : 750GG Maxtor DimondMax 22 (might replace this with the one I have in my old rig)
Sound Card : Non (as I have a Plantronics Game headset which is awesome)

antares81 · 06-22-08, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C DuDe

@ antares81

[Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer.]
I presume your talking about this card : (brand in this case: PNY) GeForce 8 8800GTX PCI-E 768MB.
Or are you talking about a different card?

I was talking about the factor OC'd MSI board...
MSI NX8800GTX-T2D768E-HD

and as far as alienware..... you pay a premium for that lower hassle.
Alienware computers are much more expensive, and they often skimp on even the most menial or parts (fans, power supply)

You can often build better systems for 50% of the price, it just takes a little know-how...and sometimes a little sweat.

Ishigami · 06-23-08, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C DuDe

Are you talking about those?

Quote:

Originally Posted by C DuDe

XFX GeForce GTX 260 ,896MB, DDR3, PCI Express (going for €327,60)
Leadtek GeForce GTX 260 ,DDR3, PCI Express x16 (going for €348,60)
Which in any case is cheaper then the 9800GX2 (cheapest going for €390,00)

I hope you don't mind, I've visited so many sites and read so many articles, I'm getting lost in the maze called PC building.

Yes one of those.

FIREWALL · 06-23-08, 02:36 AM

I heard Alienware was bought by Dell.

06-22-08, 05:23 AM	#1
C DuDe Ensign Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	New Rig.. off topic Hi, I'm currently thinking of buying a new rig but it's bin 5years since I had the pleasure of doing so. I'm a bit lost in the maze of goodies. This is what I'm thinking of: Case : (big tower yet to be determined) Power : Chieftec CFT-1200G-DF (1200watts 80% capacity) Mobo : XFX Nvidia Nforce 790i SLi (1333MHz) Processor : 2Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9450 (1333MHz) Processor Coolers : (No idea at all but it has to be up to the task) Additional Coolers : (No idea at all but it has to be quiet) Vid.Card : Nvidia 9800GX2 (as this card is... well a bit expensive, I would like to know if there's a card which performs about the same but costs less) Memory : (Brand yet to be determined) 2GG cas/ras 9.9.9 (1333Mhz) Hardisk : 750GG Maxtor DimondMax 22 Sound Card : Non (as I have a Plantronics Game headset which is awesome) I'm not interested in overclocking just want a stable rig that will work for the next 5 to 8 years. This rig is around 1500,00 euro's which is just a coupple of 100,00 euro's over my budget. Is there somenone who can give me an idea of what to buy for the things marked in RED & GREEN or has other or additional ideas? Thx for replying, CD

06-22-08, 08:59 AM	#2
antares81 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I have a 9800GX2, Be absolutely sure that you have a huge case for this card, as it is very very large. I had to make some modifications to my case and to my south bridge heat sinks for this card to fit. ( though I would think that your mobo would fit it) Good ambient cooling is a must. The 9800GX2 can sometimes idle between 72C - 78C. I would also consider getting a power supply with 1X 12V rail.(and this is up for debate) It should be at least 32A, but most decent supplies can put out 52A and above on the 12V. 1200Watts means nothing to the video card, stability is all about stable amperage. Several people have not been able to get the best results with multi-rail power supplies, I am one of them. So in short, the 9800GX2 kicks ass, but you usually have to make some concessions to get it to work properly. Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer. They had none in stock, so was forced to send me a 9800GX2. With the current drivers, I notice almost no difference in performance at this time. I would use any Zalman CNPS cooler. They look ridicules but are very effective. Also pretty easy to install compared to the crappy intel stock cooler. Last edited by antares81; 06-22-08 at 09:12 AM.

06-22-08, 12:02 PM	#4
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs. I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing. Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment. In any case good luck with whichever system you choose. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

06-23-08, 02:36 AM	#10
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	I heard Alienware was bought by Dell. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

06-22-08, 10:49 AM	#3
Ishigami Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 177 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I wouldn’t recommend a multi GPU solution like CF/SLI or multi GPU card. I think it is better to rely on a single GPU card. Multi GPU solution like CF, SLI or multi GPU cards suffer from the same problems. They need a good driver to be effective and this varies from game to game and even then they all suffer from micro stuttering which ruins partly the performance advantage. I feel buying e.g. the new GTX 260 is more appropriated (maybe too expensive). Depending on the game it’s as fast as or even faster than a 9800 GX2 and has no micro stuttering. Yet the new Radeon 4870 which will soon be released could be an alternative. No physic acceleration but Dx10.1 which will result if support by game in a better AA. The next thing is that I think an SLI board is unnecessary. As I do not consider SLI as an option a board for it is of course a waste. CPU from Intel runs best on a chipset by Intel. Even if not faster they are more stable. As for the CPU cooler I recommend a tower cooler form Noctua. They are quiet and effective. I recommend the NH-U12P. You may want to consider changing the shipped NS-P12 fan to a NF-S12 fan if you want to further optimize the noise level. The NF-S12 is also the fan I recommend for the case, these are really quiet. They also have 80mm fans if necessary but that’s only a NF-R8. Noctua Homepage: http://www.noctua.at A 1200 watt power unit is oversized by far. For this PC without SLI or CF a 500 to 600 watt power unit is enough. You could save about 50 to 100€. I’m not telling you to buy cheap one the power unit is very important and most time it’s not considered accordingly BUT it’s just that you never will need 1200 watt. Good power units would be the Enermax Liberty or Infiniti series in my opinion. As for Quad Core CPUs most games do not take advantage of it at all. I bet the fastest Core 2 Duo will be faster in all games than this quad. I thereby recommend the Core 2 Duo E8500 which will save another 100€. Remember: A FASTER 3D ACCELERATOR IS BETTER THAN A FASTER CPU! You better spend this 100€ on your GPU than on the CPU.

06-22-08, 02:45 PM	#7
C DuDe Ensign Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	@ antares81 [Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer.] I presume your talking about this card : (brand in this case: PNY) GeForce 8 8800GTX PCI-E 768MB. Or are you talking about a different card? @ Ishigami [I feel buying e.g. the new GTX 260 is more appropriated (maybe too expensive)] Are you talking about those? XFX GeForce GTX 260 ,896MB, DDR3, PCI Express (going for €327,60) Leadtek GeForce GTX 260 ,DDR3, PCI Express x16 (going for €348,60) Which in any case is cheaper then the 9800GX2 (cheapest going for €390,00) I hope you don't mind, I've visited so many sites and read so many articles, I'm getting lost in the maze called PC building. I came up with this rig: Case : NZXT Zero Tower Power : PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad CrossFire Edition Mobo : MSI X48 Platinum (not quite happy about this one though) any recommandation whould be appreciated. Processor : Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8500 (considering your input Ishigami) Processor Coolers : Zalman CNPS 8700NT (odd thing, I was already looking at those coolers antares81). Additional Coolers : Not needed as the case has 7 of them already (120mm) Vid.Card : on of the above mentioned GTX 260 Memory : Corsair DIMM 2 GB DDR3-1333 Hardisk : 750GG Maxtor DimondMax 22 (might replace this with the one I have in my old rig) Sound Card : Non (as I have a Plantronics Game headset which is awesome)