will we ever see a super mod?

[plj]

If your goal is Sober's all-in-one list, this is in correct order and for English voices, with addition of trevally maps for newui 2-3-4 and the substraction of realistic underwater (=black underwater).

Just save as <something>.mep and use it as guide on which mods to download that are not in the all-in-one download in the bonus area.

I have the complete list as per 24-09 on my computer .. but I cant share that outside the bonus area .. or at least, I feel I cant ..

Accurate German Flags
sobers game loading tips V8 SH5
DBM Background Video
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2.2 Patch
sobers multi color mod V5
DynEnv v2.9 - 1. Main Mod
DynEnv v2.9 - 5.c Ambient Settings - Darker Nights-No Murky Waters
DynEnv v2.9 - 12. Sounds
Small_trees_SH5_V1
sobers smoke screen V1 SH5 (DynEnv compatible)
sobers water splash anim SH5
sobers best ever fog  V22 SH5
sobers base sky mechanics V1
sobers better terrain v3 SH5
sobers waves mod V12 27032013
sobers more trees SH5
SH5_7A_Conning_Fix
Fuel Gauge WoGaDi_SteelViking's Interior
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_byTheBeast
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1_HotFix
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1 (available by date) V9 by sober
EUF_UBoat_FX_v0_0_3_ byTheBeast
SH5 Longer Repairs v.1
AI_sub_crew_1_0_2_TheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_22_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_22_Torpedoes (modified for torpedoes failure patches)
NewUIs_TDC_7_5_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_7_5_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_Torpedo
NewUIs_TDC_7_5_0_Real_Navigation
NewUIs_TDC_7_5_0_RadCapTools_0_2_alpha
Submarine's .sim&cfg (modified for engine ratio + independent control patches)
Sjizzles - Charts for NewUIs part1_07.06.2013
Sjizzles - Charts for NewUIs part 2_07.06.2013
Sjizzles - Charts for NewUIs part 3_24.06.2013
Sjizzles - Charts for NewUIs part 4_20.07.2013
Manos Scopes-patch for 16x9
IRAI_0_0_39_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_39_ByTheDarkWraith_Patch_1
R.E.M_by_Xrundel_TheBeast_1.2
R.E.M_by_Xrundel_TheBeast_1.2 - no hyd on surface - NewUIs-IRAI compatible
Depth Charge Fix Reduced Explosion Range
Cerberus62 Corrected Depth Charge Projector 1.0
silentmichal's interior mod 1.2.3
OPEN HORIZONS II_full v2.2
R.S.D. - Reworked Submarine Damage v4 by vdr1981
SkyBaron's Leigh Light for SH5 1.1
Sobers Terrain fix for OH2 V2.2
Expanded Navies by Cybermat47 v.1.0.01
Reworked Morale and Abilities v.1.1
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
MCCD_1.04_MFCM_1.2.1_compatible
Speech fixes and additions (english version)
RPM Hydrophone v2.2.1
sobers green crew training V4 SH5
TDW FX Fix for Sobers chimney smoke
Church's Compass Dials Mod v2.2 - Option One
smaller flags for Warships 1_0b
sobers Lights Cfg V5 SH5
Trevally Tutorial - All v0.2(for OHIIv1.3)
Trevally Automated Scripts v0.6
Trevally Harbour & Kiel Canal Pilot v3.1
Trevally TDC Help v2
MadMaxs_SH5_Subdiesel (mono) v2
sobers hud sounds V1 SH5
sobers no footstep sound mod
sobers Realistic contrast V6 SH5
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - Large Style
AOB slide ruller for TDW UIs and MO by stoianm
sobers deck crew always whispering v2 SH5
gap - HD 1 deg Scope Bearing v 1.0
Shadow Improvement ModLR
sobers bad weather deck gun V5 SH5
sobers map colors SH5 V1

This is in correct order and as far as I have been able to check up to date with all current versions.

Originally Posted by Sjizzle

heya m8 nobody said that do not make it ...if u make a super mod and when u put together all mods in 1 folder something like Magnum Opus, Schleichtfahrt u can not update it anymore... each time when a mod have an update or a new mod is released u must make all form beginning u can not add only that mod to your mega mod... if u think on something like Sober_all_n_one what i have be give to Uncle Neal for bonus mod nobody stop you just as volodya and i said there is one pretty new one 2 - 3 weeks old if somebody download that and use sober .mep file need to add only 1 or 3 mods nothing more....

why cant you just add the updated mod to over write the other files? if there are no mod conflicts then there are no merged files to deal with so adding the one updated mod on top of the multi-mod package solves any issue with one or two mods getting updated.

if more then 2 or 3 mods get updated then just redo the mod package, its just copy and pasting so there is no mod creation work going on that requires modded file creation and testing, that is done by the modder when he created his update. its not that hard guys so don't overthink it

[Sjizzle]

Originally Posted by Webster

why cant you just add the updated mod to over write the other files? if there are no mod conflicts then there are no merged files to deal with so adding the one updated mod on top of the multi-mod package solves any issue with one or two mods getting updated.

if more then 2 or 3 mods get updated then just redo the mod package, its just copy and pasting so there is no mod creation work going on that requires modded file creation and testing, that is done by the modder when he created his update. its not that hard guys so don't overthink it

i mean o super mod not a mod list like sober one ....
for exampl. if TDW make an update for his UI and u will add to the super mod then will overwrite some files in OHII and other mods and then u will have CDT's a collection of mod's like sober mod list can be updated very easy u need only the latest mods and the .mep... for super mod u need to put all files together in the right order.
take a look at MyMegaMod or something like that no updates same as Schleichtfahrt they are very old an if u add now only OHII v2.2 will not work or TDW FX_updates will not work will crash each time ....u need all mods from Schleichtfahrt or MyMegaMod and put the files together in the right order to not crash.
sorry if i am wrong here and sorry for my bad English

Originally Posted by Sjizzle

i mean o super mod not a mod list like sober one ....
for exampl. if TDW make an update for his UI and u will add to the super mod then will overwrite some files in OHII and other mods and then u will have CDT's a collection of mod's like sober mod list can be updated very easy u need only the latest mods and the .mep... for super mod u need to put all files together in the right order.
take a look at MyMegaMod or something like that no updates same as Schleichtfahrt they are very old an if u add now only OHII v2.2 will not work or TDW FX_updates will not work will crash each time ....u need all mods from Schleichtfahrt or MyMegaMod and put the files together in the right order to not crash.
sorry if i am wrong here and sorry for my bad English

go back and reread it, plj said he offered to do just that (create a mod list super mod) so when you replied as you did it was looking as though you were saying to him, not to.

this is what he offered to do in the past but was rebuffed in the same manner back then as well because everyone wants everything.

all im saying is he needs support that it is desired that he something like put sobers mod list and any others that are popular into a single easy to use one folder single mod and 90% of everyone is happy and greatfull to have it.

the biggest problems I see with mods right now is people trying to get the huge number of mods installed correctly in the right order so lets solve that issue for now and the "super mod" and all of what that truly entails and means to everyone is a question that has never been settled. everyone has different wants, needs, and expectations so if you are looking for another GWX forget it but you might be able to get something along the lines of sh4 with GFO, TMO, RFB, FOTRS, OM, etc so you end up with 4 or 5 versions of different flavored super mods but it will take many more years for the game to get to that point.

[Sjizzle]

i didn't said do not make or u are not allowed i just said my opinion about a mega mode...every body it's free to make one... if my opinion hurts somebody than sorry i will newer say my opinion.

Have a nice day
Sjizzle

[plj]

I feel the need to point out that I in no way took offense at any opinion stated by anyone here.

Sjizzle's advice has been most helpfull to me in getting my soup working.

What I do agree with in what Webster said is that it is somewhat off-putting when you are greeted with reasons not to and rethorical questions regarding the need for another collection.

I know I'm new, and started 3 weeks ago with asking semi-dumb questions and am now offering to put together an easy to install package for the sober all_n_one list. Partially I have no clue what that means on behalf of maintenance, but let that be my issue I reconned that the sober all_n_one list is the most complete and widely used 'base package', in that I stand corrected, as there seem to be multiple, Sjizzle's Magui based list for instance .. and prolly a few more that I have not come across yet.

However, based on my installation experience this is a task not everybody will manage, let alone want to try. You want to extract something, run something, watch your computer do stuff and be amazed at the new modded sh5. Given the fact that mods change often, stop working together, etc. this would mean that a constantly current compilation would be hard to maintain, but nothing stops a monthly build + revision + 'installer'.

I will immediately concede that once you managed to do one list, the next one wont take half the time, and the one after that will prolly be done eyes closed, but that does not hold true for everybody.

I was not thinking about creating a supermod, I was thinking of creating a simple true all_in_one package .. where the tasks is to unzip, run jsgme and load the provided .mep file and be done. It's not something I would have created after that either .. it's just me making life easyer for newbies like me and catching some of the 'you are stupiz .. silent hunter develpermoddersuckzors!' topics that spawn after some kid has managed to crash his silenthunter repeatedly.

The only thing I would feel I would be the author of after this process is the threat that would be needed to explain it and give some insight in to how to change options or stay current.

People have a working modlist in a mather of minutes vs hours .. a lot of questions that come from stuff not matching the guides present on the forum wont get asked anymore, less frustration all around and more time to focus on playing or modding.

I havent picked up on the release rhythm here, perhaps once every 3 months would be better.

[Kroenen]

As an absolute newcomer, I have watched many videos showing some of the mods in action, and after a little digging, I ended up here with you guys, and the wealth of info on this site.

I'm siding with plj a little here in that, I decide that the sober mega mod is very popular, so I read the forum threads, read his extremely comprehensive installation guide, and other well written tutorials along the way.

About 7 hours later, and somewhat bleary eyed, I came across pljs' .wep file, and this helped immensely. The problem with being new to the game, is that in these mega mod packs, there are a lot of mods that I have no idea what they do, or their impact on the game. So...you rely on someone saying "grab this mod, that one and that one" etc. It would be easy to say, read the mod description or documentation, but really....that's a lot of info, and many of the mods have several different 'variations'.

The idea of a downloadable mod-pack, with an accompanying .wep file, is an amazing idea for anyone willing to keep it up to date. That way, newcomers (like myself), could download the pack, the wep and follow the presumably shorter installation instructions (which should be included with the wep/mod-pack), and you could spend those hours enjoying the game, rather than trying to get it to work. It's very reminiscent of the FeedTheBeast mod pack for Minecraft. Mostly above 100 different mods, you dump them in one place, and every so often it gets updated. So simple!

Anyway, just wanted to add that all these problems I feel fortunate to have. If it weren't for the amazing selfless mod community, and the contribution of sites like SubSim.com, we'd all be playing a less immersive game.

[Mikemike47]

Welcome aboard Kroenen

Originally Posted by Kroenen

The idea of a downloadable mod-pack, with an accompanying .wep file, is an amazing idea for anyone willing to keep it up to date. That way, newcomers (like myself), could download the pack, the wep and follow the presumably shorter installation instructions (which should be included with the wep/mod-pack), and you could spend those hours enjoying the game, rather than trying to get it to work.
Mostly above 100 different mods, you dump them in one place, and every so often it gets updated. So simple!

I was a newbie once. I had to read all directions then and still do now. I asked a few questions now and then. Didn't have any major problems with mods because I read directions. I did play for hours and did not have to try to get it to work because I read directions. If I got stuck, then I simply asked for help when I ran into problems.

I an generalizing here since this has been suggested so many times by newer subsimmers so many times. Another newbie or recently new subsimmer makes a suggestion of another megadownload pack. Interesting that there is now two bonus mod megapacks within the last month, and others want to change it all ready. Great than volunteer and do it. See how many changes happen in a few months and make a new megamod updated download in a few months or so. Talk is cheap, actions are better.

SH5 is still a relatively new game. Perhaps in the future, a great megamod for all to like, will come out in the future. Only time will tell.

Please prove me wrong that the people making the suggestions will do the action of a uploading another megamodpack and do a major update in a few months or so.

We shall see if PLJ makes a megamod.
Update:PLJ has contributed in other wonderful ways for subsim.

[Mikemike47]

Originally Posted by plj

a lot of questions that come from stuff not matching the guides present on the forum wont get asked anymore, less frustration all around and more time to focus on playing or modding.

Questions I can see not matching guides - I can think of one example - TDW patcher - for the newbies. Sjizzle created a thread of TDW patcher for beginners since the patcher structure has changed so much. It is found at the bottom of post #1 for the main TDW patcher thread, too. Newbies just need to do an overall scan to read documents. don't study things yet to death. Yes, it can be overwhelming. People need to slow down and absorb information, and not expect instant gratification or rewards first. Remember I was a newbie once, too.

Any other questions? If people do not ask, we can not help.

I made a suggestion to volodya61 to include a modlist in his bonus modpack.

[Kroenen]

Thanks for the welcome Mike, and first off, I can totally appreciate what you're trying to get across.

However, I too am an 'old-guard' and do read documentation. I've had SH5 for 2 days, and been fiddling with the 'mod pack' since yesterday, and still cannot get it to work. It's not unreasonable to expect that a "pack" will work out of the box. Someone has taken the time to collate an interesting and immersive collection of mods that 'should' work together.

Unfortunately, they do not seem to work together without a certain amount of 'fettling' that could be avoided with the inclusion of mep files (from my limited understanding at least). That way, you download the mod pack, shove the folders in the mod directory, and load the mep through mod enabler.

I started with sobers mega mod pack, but it contains so may variations on certain mods that it is overwhelming. Great if you already know which mods do what, but not so good if you just want a nicely tailored experience from the go.

So I turned to the volodya61 version, which seems to contain a popular configuration of the sober mods, all neatly laid out in their respective folders. This is great, but you need to install them in a certain order...which is where the mep file is invaluable. If I ever get this working, I'd be more than happy to upload my mep file and say "This mep file goes with this mod pack, and it should work out of the box. This is how to install it". There is no reason at all to not want to refine the process to something as simple as that.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mikemike47

I was a newbie once. I had to read all directions then and still do now. I asked a few questions now and then. Didn't have any major problems with mods because I read directions. I did play for hours and did not have to try to get it to work because I read directions. If I got stuck, then I simply asked for help when I ran into problems.

I fully agree with you, Mike.

My golden rules for beginners:

1. If you are an absolute beginner, the thread SH5 Mod Guide for Beginners, will give you the indispensable know how.
   
   
2. When creating your own mod list, try following as closely as possible one of the "safe" lists shared by Sober, Fifi or Sjizzle, and read attentively their detailed instructions.
   
   
3. If you are not sure whether to use or not one of the mods featured in the aforementioned safe mod lists, read mod directions to know what it is doing exactly and how it would suit your tastes/needs.
   
   
4. If you want to use a mod not featured in the safe mod lists, read mod directions to know what it is doing exactly and how to use it.
   
   
5. If you can't understand what a mod does, you probably don't need for it!
   
   
6. File conflicts reported by JSGME are okay as far as you stick to the mods of one of the safe mod lists, and you enable them in the same order suggested by the guys who devised those lists.
   
   
7. Unless you know what you are doing, absolutely avoid file conflicts reported by JSGME while enabling a mod not featured in the safe mod lists: continuing would probably result in loss of features, or unstable game in the worst cases.
   
   
8. How do you know what you are doing? The first source of information are mod install directions. Mod authors usually list other mods which their mod is compatible with. If two mods have conflicting files, and neither of them is expressely stated to be compatible with the other, it is likely that they are not compatible.
   
   
9. In general, the more similar are the game features affected by two mods, the more likely they will have shared files, the higher the chance that they are not compatible. An example: using two separate mods which make torpedoes more effective, won't make your torpedoes twice more effective. In the most fortunate case, the last torpedo mod enabled will overwrite completely the previous one, thus making its usage pointless. In the worst case you will obtain a mess, i.e. a mixture of uncoherent settings from the two mods, and soon or later you will learn it at your expenses.
   
   
10. In case of compatibility issues, mod enabling order matters. The last mod enabled will overwrite eventual conflicting files of mod(s) previously enabled. Not always compatibility is reciprocal: if a mod is compatible with a second mod, the latter is not necessarily compatible with the former. Always enable compatibility patches, or mods which are repotedly compatible with another mod, after the mod(s) that they are supposed to work with. Same goes for mod fixes: always enable them after the mod they are fixing. As a rule of thumbs the same rule is valid for optional submods which, unless stated differently, should be enabled after their main mod.
    
    
11. If a mod comes in multiple versions, one or more of them compatible with other mods, and you are not going to use those mods, just enable the regular version of the former mod, or you will likely suffer ctd's and other problems. Same goes for using compatibility patches or mods patches/fixes in absence of the mods that they are supposed to make compatible and/or fix.
    
    
12. Though not sharing any file, some mods are incompatible with each other due the way they are working. As an example, a mod might rely on a setting in a stock file (thus not included in the mod), which is removed or altered by a second mod. This is a rare evenience, but it can happen. How do you know that two not conflicting mods are nonetheless incompatible? Mod directions, my dear Watson!
    
    
13. If you are still not 100% sure about the compatibility of a mod you want to use, but you just don't want to give it up, the following rule suits your case: enable dubious mods one by one. Play a while before proeceeding to the next one, and beware that the side effects of a bad-placed mod don't necessarily show up immedialtely.
    
    
14. Some mods can be enabled any time, whereas some other mods require a campaign restart. In general, graphic and sound mods or the ones affecting AI controlled units, belong to the first group and mods affecting U-boat equipments, U-boat crew, campaign, etc, belong to the second category. There are many exceptions though. If you are not absolutely sure about the category that your recently enabled mod(s) belong to, make yourself a favour and restart your campaign.
    
    
15. In case of doubts or problems, don't esitate asking for help on the forum. You should post your questions (preferably one question at time) on the thread of the mod which is likely to cause the problem, adding details of your mod list and as much information as you can on when, since when, how often, and in which ways the problem presents itself. Spamming the forum with random posts full of unrelated questions or with generic requests of help where the one clue is a kilometric mod list, is like asking other members to look for a needle in a haystack, and it not going to help neither you, nor a possible advisor willing to track down your problem.

I am not saying that following the above rules is the same as having a ready-to-use megamod, but believe me: while we wait for it, a little starting effort will spare yourself a lot of frustration and wasted time

[Aktungbby]

Can you shorten to just TEN rules: I'm getting out my chisel!

[plj]

Can I please draw a distinction between modders and gamers ?

The above rules are very good pointers for someone wanting to get into modding. Or for someone who is not happy about a collection package, and wants to start mixing and matching.

Using it as a sort of guide for new people to adhere to when they want to use some great mods, makes those same mods less available to the general public.

The modders here have an attitude that is commendable, but not one many others have. People are not going to try 100+ mods to see which they like best, and then try to put them in one list. Others have done that with great success, there is no use in trying to outperform them as a n00b and having to mimic their learning curve. So you want a base package that you start out with .. where all thinking has been done and nothing is left to decide. A true dummy proof package that gets updated every now and then with stable additions.

This ensures people build a level of trust and confidence in the tools and mods that they need to even get to the point where they want to play around with them in a more hands on manner .. and the point where these pointers start to become meaningfull to them imho.

Also, there are people that will never be able to follow any guide, no matter how many screenshots or video tutorials you add in, and produce the expected result.
You could call that natural selection, but I'd call that pointless or even counterproductive as they could be supporting subsim members and talking about it to their peers if it where not for the entry barrier.

Originally Posted by Mikemike47

I did play for hours and did not have to try to get it to work because I read directions. If I got stuck, then I simply asked for help when I ran into problems.

I an generalizing here since this has been suggested so many times by newer subsimmers so many times. Another newbie or recently new subsimmer makes a suggestion of another megadownload pack. Interesting that there is now two bonus mod megapacks within the last month, and others want to change it all ready. Great than volunteer and do it. See how many changes happen in a few months and make a new megamod updated download in a few months or so. Talk is cheap, actions are better.

This is where you are kinda wrong. I wanted sober's list ... and it took about a week to get from 0 knowledge on the subject, to being able to get it running. Using reading up and searching the forum as primary tool, and asking questions as the second. Go look in my post history.

The only reason I persisted is because the teaser screenshots look so damn good and the way sober marketed his list: "with this list you'll have to think like a real u-boat captain" or something to that extend. There is no way I would have bothered if I was just curious about it.

I did offer to make it ... I will make it ... and it will be easy. No need to sneer about talk being easy when I pop an idea based on my appreciation for the work some of you guys did and my simple observation that the current method of getting that list to work is far from easy for the general gamer.

[Mikemike47]

Originally Posted by Mikemike47

I made a suggestion to volodya61 to include a modlist in his bonus modpack.

volodya61 SH5 Mega Pack download page now has a link to all the mods included in the pack.

[Mikemike47]

Originally Posted by gap

My golden rules for beginners:

And I might even add this link to the JSGME thread I started. Or is it too excessive with all the other links? Overkill?