MBDA Meteor

mapuc · 08-13-14, 07:05 PM

Had a look at the weapon in the Command and toke a look at Meteor. It was there but with some failure

The distance this missile can go is not 75 miles it is about 200 + miles

I have in some swedish newspaper read that this Meteor is now a permanent part of the equipment(I'm however not sure. And now I can't find this article.) I know they had a great success trying it in automn 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)

Markus

emsoy · 08-14-14, 02:44 AM

Thanks for the heads-up Markus, but that cannot possibly be right. Assuming a fuel fraction of 40% that's 74kg, and it seems unlikely this amount would propell a 110kg body 320km at a max speed of Mach 4 and arrive on target at speeds well above Mach 1.

The source of the information is the AMRAAM's no-escape zone. Seems someone just multiplied the max stated range of a late-production AMRAAMs and came up with 200nm. But this is not the right way to do it. Uhm yeah and max range and no-escape zone is not exactly the same thing hehe.

The Meteor has about three times the sustainer performance compared to a conventional rocket motor. Simply put, this means if the sustainer on the ARAAM runs for 20 seconds, the Meteor can run for 60 sec. When the fuel is out, both missiles will glide and deaccelerate in pretty much the same way. The extra 40 seconds on sustainer for the Meteor will not take it 125-150nm further.

In any case we've done most of the research for a new propulsion model for Command that will improve things quite a bit and make the advantages of the ramjet motor clearer.

Thanks

Herr-Berbunch · 08-14-14, 06:05 AM

Mach 4 for 40 seconds (not including deceleration) is about 52 km (32 miles).

ikalugin · 08-14-14, 07:14 AM

The airbreathing motor has more air resistance, less volume used for fuel and more complex structure though.

mapuc · 08-14-14, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Mach 4 for 40 seconds (not including deceleration) is about 52 km (32 miles).

It only fly that fast when it has found its target. the missile has a two-way link to the fighter jet.(JAS39, has)

the propulsion is all using integrated rocket/ramjet propulsion(from same link about the missile)

what I understand it will use this ramjet until a few miles before the position of the target thereafter the rocket will kick in and the missile will increase rapidly in speed before hit.

The distance this missile can travel is not something I only have read on wiki-pages have also heard about in Swedish news program some years ago.

about the Meteor on JAS39 I found this information from FMV(Försvarets material verk=Swedish Defence Materiel Administration)

"During the fall, further work to be carried out in order to have the final delivery in 2014 Gripen will be the first aircraft is operating with the Meteor missile"

Markus

mapuc · 08-14-14, 12:48 PM

Forgot something

There seems to be a problem with the link when you click on it you don't come the wiki page I copied. I don't know why

Here is what to do, if you didn't know

When you have clicked on the link you come to a different wiki page and there you can read "Did you mean: Meteor (missile)" click on the word Meteor and you come the right page.

Markus

emsoy · 08-14-14, 03:37 PM

http://www.bayern-chemie.com/ramjet.htm

The rocket is the booster and the ramjet is the sustainer. Seems the weapon can throttle back to save energy for the end game, but not sure if it can shut down and restart the ramjet engine for long-range shots.

A restartable rocket motor was planned for one of the AAAM compeditors before that program got killed in the early 1990s. Pretty interesting stuff (if you're an engineer at least) but that is not something that Meteor uses. Python 5 can supposedly control how fast the fuel burns too, to prevent it from going too fast and overshooting when being fired over the shoulder.

mapuc · 08-14-14, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emsoy

http://www.bayern-chemie.com/ramjet.htm

The rocket is the booster and the ramjet is the sustainer. Seems the weapon can throttle back to save energy for the end game, but not sure if it can shut down and restart the ramjet engine for long-range shots.

A restartable rocket motor was planned for one of the AAAM compeditors before that program got killed in the early 1990s. Pretty interesting stuff (if you're an engineer at least) but that is not something that Meteor uses. Python 5 can supposedly control how fast the fuel burns too, to prevent it from going too fast and overshooting when being fired over the shoulder.

I'm not an engineer I have only read about it(mostly in Swedish) and seen and heard about it(Swedish news) and lately wiki

And from what I understand its distance is longer than 75 nm(made a convert km to nm and 330 km in nm is ca 178 nm)

Markus

emsoy · 08-15-14, 12:49 AM

75nm is actually quite far for such a small missile. So will need more details on the flight profile and propulsion system if we're gonna change it significantly. Sorry

mapuc · 08-15-14, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emsoy

75nm is actually quite far for such a small missile. So will need more details on the flight profile and propulsion system if we're gonna change it significantly. Sorry

I know you need a lot more than just my words

My best proposal is that you take contact with the Swedish FMV and ask them what they can tell about this missile. Speed, distance, how this link between missile and plane works a.s.o or you could take contact with the company behind the missile.

Markus

Herr-Berbunch · 08-16-14, 01:52 AM

I think in your original link the close-bracket is outside of the hyperlink.

mapuc · 08-16-14, 01:58 PM

This is from a Swedish page translated via google translate.

"Meteor will introduce many new capabilities in air combat arena. It is the first missile with variable throttle. During homing adapted engine thrust so that the robot should be able to fend off the course changes the target does. When the robot calculates the target maneuvers are no longer at risk of giving the robot runs out of energy accelerates the robot to the top speed. The robot also has as one of the first bi-directional data link which among other things allows the excess aircraft target data is compared with the robot's own sensor picks up.

The most impressive meteor, however the robot's distance. Here comes the meteor that for a few years surpass all other missile systems in the world, although it is planned for more long-range systems in other countries."

The Operational range for this missile seems change depending on what page you visit.
The English Wiki has 320+ km
Swedish wiki has 100 lm +
Saab group(the creator of JAS39) has the same range 100 km +

It seems that no one really know the real operational distance for this missile. I guess the reason to this is very simple the people/company behind keep these information for them self.

So until now I think that 75 mn is OK. I guess you will change that when the real operational distance will be known ?

Markus

mapuc · 08-16-14, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

I think in your original link the close-bracket is outside of the hyperlink.

It was I tried several times to fix it, with no success.

Markus

emsoy · 08-17-14, 12:04 AM

Thanks Markus, yes we'll change the range once we have more detailed information

Command already simulates one and two-way datalinks. Two-way datalinks like on the Meteor and AIM-120D (and SLAM, Walleye, etc) can send information on contacts they detect to the parent aircraft, where as older AMRAAMs cannot.

FSKRipper · 08-22-14, 03:08 PM

I think you should take the a low approach. 75nm looks ok. Newspapers are often trying to refer to manufacturers data. I remember watching a documentation over 688i Subs in the early 2000's where an officer proudly stated they could detect enemy subs with their passive hull sonar at 2000+ miles. I fell from my couch and needed 3 minutes to stop laughing. I served for two years as a sonar operator in the german navy and and had never ever before heard so much sailor's yarn.

08-13-14, 07:05 PM	#1
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,877 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	MBDA Meteor Had a look at the weapon in the Command and toke a look at Meteor. It was there but with some failure The distance this missile can go is not 75 miles it is about 200 + miles I have in some swedish newspaper read that this Meteor is now a permanent part of the equipment(I'm however not sure. And now I can't find this article.) I know they had a great success trying it in automn 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile) Markus

08-14-14, 02:44 AM	#2
emsoy Loader Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 81 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the heads-up Markus, but that cannot possibly be right. Assuming a fuel fraction of 40% that's 74kg, and it seems unlikely this amount would propell a 110kg body 320km at a max speed of Mach 4 and arrive on target at speeds well above Mach 1. The source of the information is the AMRAAM's no-escape zone. Seems someone just multiplied the max stated range of a late-production AMRAAMs and came up with 200nm. But this is not the right way to do it. Uhm yeah and max range and no-escape zone is not exactly the same thing hehe. The Meteor has about three times the sustainer performance compared to a conventional rocket motor. Simply put, this means if the sustainer on the ARAAM runs for 20 seconds, the Meteor can run for 60 sec. When the fuel is out, both missiles will glide and deaccelerate in pretty much the same way. The extra 40 seconds on sustainer for the Meteor will not take it 125-150nm further. In any case we've done most of the research for a new propulsion model for Command that will improve things quite a bit and make the advantages of the ramjet motor clearer. Thanks __________________ Database guru, sensor model developer, system tester and senior scenario designer in the "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

08-14-14, 06:05 AM	#3
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Mach 4 for 40 seconds (not including deceleration) is about 52 km (32 miles). __________________

08-14-14, 03:37 PM	#7
emsoy Loader Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 81 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	http://www.bayern-chemie.com/ramjet.htm The rocket is the booster and the ramjet is the sustainer. Seems the weapon can throttle back to save energy for the end game, but not sure if it can shut down and restart the ramjet engine for long-range shots. A restartable rocket motor was planned for one of the AAAM compeditors before that program got killed in the early 1990s. Pretty interesting stuff (if you're an engineer at least) but that is not something that Meteor uses. Python 5 can supposedly control how fast the fuel burns too, to prevent it from going too fast and overshooting when being fired over the shoulder. __________________ Database guru, sensor model developer, system tester and senior scenario designer in the "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

08-15-14, 12:49 AM	#9
emsoy Loader Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 81 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	75nm is actually quite far for such a small missile. So will need more details on the flight profile and propulsion system if we're gonna change it significantly. Sorry __________________ Database guru, sensor model developer, system tester and senior scenario designer in the "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

08-14-14, 07:14 AM	#4
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The airbreathing motor has more air resistance, less volume used for fuel and more complex structure though.

08-14-14, 12:48 PM	#6
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,877 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Forgot something There seems to be a problem with the link when you click on it you don't come the wiki page I copied. I don't know why Here is what to do, if you didn't know When you have clicked on the link you come to a different wiki page and there you can read "Did you mean: Meteor (missile)" click on the word Meteor and you come the right page. Markus

08-16-14, 01:52 AM	#11
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	I think in your original link the close-bracket is outside of the hyperlink. __________________

08-16-14, 01:58 PM	#12
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,877 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	This is from a Swedish page translated via google translate. "Meteor will introduce many new capabilities in air combat arena. It is the first missile with variable throttle. During homing adapted engine thrust so that the robot should be able to fend off the course changes the target does. When the robot calculates the target maneuvers are no longer at risk of giving the robot runs out of energy accelerates the robot to the top speed. The robot also has as one of the first bi-directional data link which among other things allows the excess aircraft target data is compared with the robot's own sensor picks up. The most impressive meteor, however the robot's distance. Here comes the meteor that for a few years surpass all other missile systems in the world, although it is planned for more long-range systems in other countries." The Operational range for this missile seems change depending on what page you visit. The English Wiki has 320+ km Swedish wiki has 100 lm + Saab group(the creator of JAS39) has the same range 100 km + It seems that no one really know the real operational distance for this missile. I guess the reason to this is very simple the people/company behind keep these information for them self. So until now I think that 75 mn is OK. I guess you will change that when the real operational distance will be known ? Markus

08-17-14, 12:04 AM	#14
emsoy Loader Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 81 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks Markus, yes we'll change the range once we have more detailed information Command already simulates one and two-way datalinks. Two-way datalinks like on the Meteor and AIM-120D (and SLAM, Walleye, etc) can send information on contacts they detect to the parent aircraft, where as older AMRAAMs cannot. __________________ Database guru, sensor model developer, system tester and senior scenario designer in the "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

08-22-14, 03:08 PM	#15
FSKRipper Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 5 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I think you should take the a low approach. 75nm looks ok. Newspapers are often trying to refer to manufacturers data. I remember watching a documentation over 688i Subs in the early 2000's where an officer proudly stated they could detect enemy subs with their passive hull sonar at 2000+ miles. I fell from my couch and needed 3 minutes to stop laughing. I served for two years as a sonar operator in the german navy and and had never ever before heard so much sailor's yarn.