SH2: A Classic or Simply Nostalgia?

Thomsen2002 · 01-10-07, 01:13 AM

I just re-installed the game, searched out my mods CD, and went back to it. This game COULD have been a classic, but we will never know.

Of all the wargames I've played, this one is a singular example of a failed idea that was made playable by the gamers themselves.

Call me crazy if you wish, but I just spent a couple of hours reconstructing this just to experience the feel of getting back onto the conning tower, and looking out to sea.

I don't think this game is dead. All it needs is a little kickstart.

I started out here 5 years ago. Not sure if that makes me one of "The Old Guard", but I recall Sailor Steve and Palindromeria and Seeadler and Laf and Sergbuto and Hitman and Adam Warren and others -- YOU were the people that kept this game alive.

To all of you, I just wanted to say thanks for your efforts. I didn't do much -- I was basically just a cheerleader and an historical fan.

Just thought I'd surface to say that you folks are a special breed .

"Hail and victory and good hunting"

Regards to you all,

Thomsen (Glenn Higginbotham)

Hitman · 01-10-07, 03:32 AM

Hi Thomsen,

Nice to see you again you old wolf

There's still some of us around here, though no longer playing SH2.

A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims.

The main problem with SH2 was probably that we all expected too much from it. If you accepted its unchangeable shortcomings -scripted campaign- you don't really have a bad sim at all.

horsa · 01-10-07, 06:10 AM

What a refreshing thread

I suspect you are right .... there is a liberal streak of nostalgia running through this, but since when has that been such a bad thing.

I have to toss DC into this arena because together IMHO they make up a complete naval experience that I've yet to find in any other sim/game ( albeit in multiplay) Only Enigma RT has that kind of variety.

Classic ? Hmmmm .... it had some well documented frustrations ( red triangle, AI etc ) but I have to say I still "play" it as often as SH3. Not as pretty graphically but there was something about standing on the bridge in a bad sea that had a real gritty feel about it.

Hugely moddable, too .... with PA and Alpha Tau two good examples of what could be done. A pity DC never had a similar treatment .... its full potential was never realised.

Onkel Neal · 01-10-07, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims.

Well said, Hitman.

I firmly believe if Troy Heere and Ultimation had not been able to deliver SH2, even with its shortcomings in campaign and AI, there would not have been an SH3, certainly not an SH4. Like you said, all one has to do is look around and see; other than MS's marque title Flightsim and Sonalysts' 688/Sub Command/DW franchise, there are no A-list tank, helo, or subsims being developed these days. No new Longbow, Comanche, Panzer Commander, Armored Fist, Wolfpack, Aces of the Deep, Fast Attack, …. only small studio projects. Silent Hunter 2 was very important to the subsim community, and the modders who kept it alive played a crucial role.

Sailor Steve · 01-10-07, 04:45 PM

I loaded up SHII early last year, and found myself disappointed by the things SHIII has that it doesn't, and probably won't play it again.

BUT...

Once my situation allows I fully intend to try playing SHII and DC online again. I really miss that "me-against-you" feel.

And I guess Neal is right, if not for SHII we might well not be where we are today.

Raptor · 01-10-07, 05:41 PM

Thompsen! You're still afloat.

Some of us are still around and still playing SH2 on a monthly single-mission basis.

The Atlantik Kampaign is still running strong and in it's second tour of the Battle of the Atlantic. Mission 11 was just issued 01 Jan 2007. Come join us via the website http://www.geocities.com/atlantikcampaign and visit the forum at http://s2.invisionfree.com/Atlantik_Campaign/index.php

Raiders of the Deep is still running, albeit somewhat erratically. http://www.raiders-of-the-deep.com/Raiders_01.html

Salute!

nedwreck · 01-27-07, 01:04 AM

It's on my laptop along with Destroyer Command. I found them bundled at CompUSA for $5.00 a few years ago. My laptop wouldn't run SHIII with 2 gigs of memory. I still play it. It's still fun.

Bob

Torplexed · 01-27-07, 01:24 AM

SH3 may have a lot of things SH2 never could. But the nimble Type XXIII wasn't one of them. Not to mentions lots of other submarines. Always got a kick out of how easy the game was to mod.

horsa · 01-27-07, 05:52 AM

Quote:

SH3 may have a lot of things SH2 never could. But the nimble Type XXIII wasn't one of them. Not to mentions lots of other submarines. Always got a kick out of how easy the game was to mod.

Well said, Torplexed.

The sheer scope of the game (and its partner, the underrated DC) is breathtaking. There are folk on the SH3 forum who bemoan the lack of AI subs and player controlled Jap subs - all possible with SH2 and more.

Torplexed · 01-27-07, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Well said, Torplexed.

The sheer scope of the game (and its partner, the underrated DC) is breathtaking. There are folk on the SH3 forum who bemoan the lack of AI subs and player controlled Jap subs - all possible with SH2 and more.

Thanks horsa! I'm probably one of the few people who was fairly impressed with SH2 when it was released in 2001 having never played a 3-D sim before. It was easy to learn and get into. I loved the new (for the) time external view and the 360-degree torpedo cam. The scripted missions were canned true, but varied and interesting. Plus, you could always write your own campaign. The sim resurrected a latent interest in me for U-Boats that is still going to this day. It also helped that I wasn't closely following the game's pre-release progress and problems, so my expectations never got too high. Something I still do to this day to avoid dissappointments.

Plus, given some of the excellent past mods...where can you to this day play with Italian submarines? Grazie!

horsa · 01-27-07, 10:55 AM

Yep .... Italian, American, Jap subs ... even British subs (Upholder) .... and where else can you sail in Bismarck ... or raid with the Graf Spee ... it's endless.

gdogghenrikson · 01-28-07, 12:59 AM

Well, I'm no expert on subsims, but I feel SH2 is classic. My friend got me into this game and it is what sparked my interest in uboats. Also have allot of memories of playing multi player...some sweet sub vs. sub battles we had.

U-533 · 01-28-07, 07:15 AM

Well SHII is all I can play on my computer. I enjoy it.

ATLANTIKII Campaign is worthy of a check these guys bust thier humps to provide a good game played by Email.

I have not played online yet. I think I may try my hand at it if anyone is still playing SHII on line.:hmm:

ReallyDedPoet · 01-28-07, 08:33 AM

Still have it on the computer along with PA. At the time modders did alot to get the most out of that game.

GlowwormGuy · 01-29-07, 02:31 AM

and since I have yet to upgrade to a PIV with WinXP this and DC are the only things left. There were so many things that could have been done with it if only... but what we had was still pretty incredible (for its time). Sadly, by the time we got a lot of the Italian mods and even Upholder, interest had pretty much waned as SH3 was well on the way and now there's SH4 coming. I never got around to working on "His Majestys U-Boats" (the Upholder Class in the Mediterranean - if someone decides to do a British sub mod for SH3/4 feel free to use the title, I don't think I'll need it anymore :P ) and there were a hundred little things, repaints,newly modelled ships, so many things that could have been done. Still, I remember it with fondness.

I've even gotten around to doing some old fashioned modelling (working on a Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Hood kitbash conversion of the hypothetical G-3) and a lot of that was the outgrowth of all the fun I had painting and doing scenarios in SH2/DC.

Fair winds and a following sea to one and all!
Mountbatten

01-10-07, 01:13 AM	#1
Thomsen2002 Watch Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Almost heaven, West Virginia Posts: 16 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	SH2: A Classic or Simply Nostalgia? I just re-installed the game, searched out my mods CD, and went back to it. This game COULD have been a classic, but we will never know. Of all the wargames I've played, this one is a singular example of a failed idea that was made playable by the gamers themselves. Call me crazy if you wish, but I just spent a couple of hours reconstructing this just to experience the feel of getting back onto the conning tower, and looking out to sea. I don't think this game is dead. All it needs is a little kickstart. I started out here 5 years ago. Not sure if that makes me one of "The Old Guard", but I recall Sailor Steve and Palindromeria and Seeadler and Laf and Sergbuto and Hitman and Adam Warren and others -- YOU were the people that kept this game alive. To all of you, I just wanted to say thanks for your efforts. I didn't do much -- I was basically just a cheerleader and an historical fan. Just thought I'd surface to say that you folks are a special breed . "Hail and victory and good hunting" Regards to you all, Thomsen (Glenn Higginbotham) __________________ \"Hail and victory and good hunting!"\

01-10-07, 03:32 AM	#2
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,099 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Hi Thomsen, Nice to see you again you old wolf There's still some of us around here, though no longer playing SH2. A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims. The main problem with SH2 was probably that we all expected too much from it. If you accepted its unchangeable shortcomings -scripted campaign- you don't really have a bad sim at all. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

01-10-07, 04:45 PM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I loaded up SHII early last year, and found myself disappointed by the things SHIII has that it doesn't, and probably won't play it again. BUT... Once my situation allows I fully intend to try playing SHII and DC online again. I really miss that "me-against-you" feel. And I guess Neal is right, if not for SHII we might well not be where we are today. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-10-07, 05:41 PM	#6
Raptor Weps Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pacific NW, USA Posts: 350 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Thompsen! You're still afloat. Some of us are still around and still playing SH2 on a monthly single-mission basis. The Atlantik Kampaign is still running strong and in it's second tour of the Battle of the Atlantic. Mission 11 was just issued 01 Jan 2007. Come join us via the website http://www.geocities.com/atlantikcampaign and visit the forum at http://s2.invisionfree.com/Atlantik_Campaign/index.php Raiders of the Deep is still running, albeit somewhat erratically. http://www.raiders-of-the-deep.com/Raiders_01.html Salute! __________________ Raptor

01-27-07, 01:24 AM	#8
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	SH3 may have a lot of things SH2 never could. But the nimble Type XXIII wasn't one of them. Not to mentions lots of other submarines. Always got a kick out of how easy the game was to mod. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

01-10-07, 06:10 AM	#3
horsa Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Halifax, England Posts: 502 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 3	What a refreshing thread I suspect you are right .... there is a liberal streak of nostalgia running through this, but since when has that been such a bad thing. I have to toss DC into this arena because together IMHO they make up a complete naval experience that I've yet to find in any other sim/game ( albeit in multiplay) Only Enigma RT has that kind of variety. Classic ? Hmmmm .... it had some well documented frustrations ( red triangle, AI etc ) but I have to say I still "play" it as often as SH3. Not as pretty graphically but there was something about standing on the bridge in a bad sea that had a real gritty feel about it. Hugely moddable, too .... with PA and Alpha Tau two good examples of what could be done. A pity DC never had a similar treatment .... its full potential was never realised.

01-27-07, 01:04 AM	#7
nedwreck Seaman Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 41 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's on my laptop along with Destroyer Command. I found them bundled at CompUSA for $5.00 a few years ago. My laptop wouldn't run SHIII with 2 gigs of memory. I still play it. It's still fun. Bob

01-27-07, 10:55 AM	#11
horsa Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Halifax, England Posts: 502 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 3	Yep .... Italian, American, Jap subs ... even British subs (Upholder) .... and where else can you sail in Bismarck ... or raid with the Graf Spee ... it's endless.

01-28-07, 12:59 AM	#12
gdogghenrikson Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 978 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well, I'm no expert on subsims, but I feel SH2 is classic. My friend got me into this game and it is what sparked my interest in uboats. Also have allot of memories of playing multi player...some sweet sub vs. sub battles we had. __________________ And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown.

01-28-07, 07:15 AM	#13
U-533 Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: On my Boat Posts: 594 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well SHII is all I can play on my computer. I enjoy it. ATLANTIKII Campaign is worthy of a check these guys bust thier humps to provide a good game played by Email. I have not played online yet. I think I may try my hand at it if anyone is still playing SHII on line.:hmm:

01-28-07, 08:33 AM	#14
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The one and only East Coast Posts: 10,775 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Still have it on the computer along with PA. At the time modders did alot to get the most out of that game. __________________ Back in the Day

01-29-07, 02:31 AM	#15
GlowwormGuy Planesman Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 187 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	Great for its time and since I have yet to upgrade to a PIV with WinXP this and DC are the only things left. There were so many things that could have been done with it if only... but what we had was still pretty incredible (for its time). Sadly, by the time we got a lot of the Italian mods and even Upholder, interest had pretty much waned as SH3 was well on the way and now there's SH4 coming. I never got around to working on "His Majestys U-Boats" (the Upholder Class in the Mediterranean - if someone decides to do a British sub mod for SH3/4 feel free to use the title, I don't think I'll need it anymore :P ) and there were a hundred little things, repaints,newly modelled ships, so many things that could have been done. Still, I remember it with fondness. I've even gotten around to doing some old fashioned modelling (working on a Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Hood kitbash conversion of the hypothetical G-3) and a lot of that was the outgrowth of all the fun I had painting and doing scenarios in SH2/DC. Fair winds and a following sea to one and all! Mountbatten __________________ Nec Aspera per Ardua