Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

That tweet by Guy Verhofstadt further down the page made a lot of sense.

Indeed:



https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/statu...hMenrX1mfKhV7Q

[Jimbuna]

[Catfish]

^ re Andreas86

Read this and ask again what is going on, in America. You are cheering for the wrong ones.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/all/...fS8P7UK19PwT4k

The idea of this swine and Putin is to convince the enemy that politics is just an opinion, nothing substantial, and that nothing can be proven or is secure. Diverting and splitting the enemy is thus a good strategy. In the US people still do not understand what happened in 2016 and the russian meddling and influence on the american people.

https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/...pdf?sequence=1

Facebook and metadata are the new battlefield for propaganda, b.t.w. the same methods Cummings (ab)used for brexit.

"In Dugin's 1997 book, “Foundations of Geopolitics,” for example, which is perceived as highly influential in Russian military circles, he laid out a detailed strategy of how Russia could reassert itself on the international stage after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Among many other recommendations, Dugin suggested that Russia annex Ukraine and encourage Britain’s exit from the European Union (i.e., Brexit), both things that have come true at least in part."

[les green01]

Lmao some telling us we voted for the wrong one when theirs country doing nothing but buying Russia **** like going out of style or slamming trump for withholding aid seems if I remember right he released it anyway your country wasn't doing that much you guys been dragging on the US tit since 45

[Catfish]

^ proves my point

[mapuc]

In the news today, a video clip was shown from the West Jutland town of Esbjerg where the largest ship ever to call at Esbjerg harbour. On board were 300 different armoured vehicles. They are going to Poland. There were some tanks I have not seen before, among others I saw one with a short gun barrel and a big muzzle-I've tried to find a picture of it so I could write what it was. No luck

Markus

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks, appreciated.
I still wonder.. but ok, your opinion.

Right on. I get it and do still wonder. Because the trick answer is I don't know what I'm doing either. Never been in this position before. Trying different things out and seeing results. For me, a line was crossed where doing nothing was not an option and not saying anything is hard to so I guess this is how it starts...

-Tim

[Skybird]

That I one day would agree 100% with Verhofstadt... Mark this day, it saw miracles and wonders!

Regarding Germany I stick to what I said in my post here: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...postcount=2912

Scholz is not acting with determination, but by indifference. He did not act and lead with courage at the begining of this, but reacted due to fear and only because circumstances had ammounted so massively against him that he just had to move any way. That was no initiative, that was no leadership by example. That the world applauded him for that only shows that the world still does not understand dull and thick-skinned German politics. The coalition in Berlin abuses the war for pushing its own crushing climate political agenda even faster than written down in the coalition treaty. But it remains to be completely unrealistic to acchieve, with even more drastic timetables, and still not a single thought about nuclear power.

Scholz is the continuation of Merkel with a different face. Why do you think did Merkel not hide that she supported/sympathized with him more than any her own party's candidates in candidates' race...?

Leaves Habeck. He gives the impression of being the steam locomotive getting things downe. But that is not really the case, because his goals he gives out are unrealistic to be acchievable in the timetables he set up, and tightens them further, and the coalition abuses the war to speed up its agenda defined in the colation treaty, an agenda with unrealistic timetables already back then. This thing called Energiewende: the way they want to do it IT WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE IT CANNOT WORK AS THINGS STAND NOW. There simply are not enough craftsmen, ressources, and no honest calculations, all numbers always base on the most optimal examples. But the world is not like that. And it is too ruinous for thousands and tens and hundreds of thousands of house owner. The costs do not amortize even after 20 years or so. It would not even work in a world without covid, debts crisis, high inflation, and transportation crisis and collapsing supply chains. How much less it can work in the world as it now is!

The whole thing will frontally crash into the wall of reality. For the German industry and private households and house owners it means: "Es gibt Kleinholz in Streichholzlänge".

Another danger now is that the Europeans and Germany walk straight into the next trap: turning a blind eye ionce again on nuclear bomb ambitions and instead doing big (gas) business with - IRAN. It will be interestign to see how Biden is positioning the US on the Iran topic. Maybe it needs to threaten the Europeans with sanctions to call them back to reason.

[August]

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine's foreign minister says he has travelled to Nato HQ in Brussels to discuss one thing: "Weapons, weapons, weapons"

Dmytro Kuleba will sit down with his counterparts and tell them of the horrors of the war.

It's the second day of talks for Nato foreign ministers, with a focus on how best to support Ukraine.

Britain's Foreign Secretary Liz Truss has said that an era of engagement with Russia over European security is over.

The UK defence ministry says Russian forces are focused on the fight in eastern Ukraine but face morale, supply and manpower issues.

The BBC has seen residential areas flattened in Chernihiv following the withdrawal of troops.

[Jimbuna]

The Kremlin denies it all: the footage of bodies lying in the streets in Bucha, the mass graves and the terrible testimony of witnesses. And state TV parrots the narrative.

Since evidence of apparent Russian atrocities emerged from the settlements around Kyiv, programme editors have gone to extraordinary lengths to discredit the reports as a fabrication, a lie concocted by Ukraine and the West.

To switch on Russian TV has, for weeks now, been to step into a weird parallel universe where glossy presenters and well-dressed pundits chronicle a successful "special military operation" in Ukraine. There is no war, just heroic Russian soldiers defending the motherland while taking care to avoid targeting civilians.

The horrific images from Bucha have been broadcast, but viewers are told that the gruesome scenes were staged by Ukrainian officials, with help from the West.

"This was done by professionals, probably British. They're the best in the area of information operations," said commentator Gevorg Mirzaryan. "[They know how] to place the bodies correctly, do everything correctly, create a nice picture for the necrophilic Western consciousness."

Talk show host Olesya Loseva even suggested that the town of Bucha had deliberately been chosen because President Joe Biden had recently used the word butcher to describe Vladimir Putin, so "for Americans this word should be clear".

It is a classic Kremlin tactic in the face of such accusations - deny, dismiss as fake and, if possible, blame someone else.

[Jimbuna]

Russians fed twisted picture and one voice - that of Putin

The horrific images from Bucha have been broadcast, but viewers are told that the gruesome scenes were staged by Ukrainian officials, with help from the West.

"This was done by professionals, probably British. They're the best in the area of information operations," said commentator Gevorg Mirzaryan. "[They know how] to place the bodies correctly, do everything correctly, create a nice picture for the necrophilic Western consciousness."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61008293

[Skybird]

FOCUS, Der Spiegel:


According to a report in Der Spiegel, Germany's Federal Intelligence Service has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian soldiers in which they discuss the atrocities in Butscha. Individual conversations are even said to match photographed corpses. In one radio message, a soldier tells another that he and his comrades shot a person off a bicycle. In another radio message, a man is heard saying that the Russian soldiers questioned civilians, then shot them.

According to "Spiegel," the radio transmissions reveal that the massacres are not the acts of individual soldiers gone wild. Rather, the acts seem planned. The conversations about them sound commonplace. This certainly suggests that the murder of civilians - as in previous wars - is part of the war strategy of the Russians.

The audio recordings of the BND, which were presented in the parliamentary room on Wednesday, according to "Spiegel", are further evidence that Russian troops are responsible for the massacres in Butscha and the surrounding area. Terrifyingly, the intelligence service has other audio documents that suggest that there are such massacres in other regions as well. So far, however, they cannot be clearly assigned to locations.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


Ukrainian intelligence has released an audio recording purporting to show a Russian commander talking to a soldier on the ground in Mariupol. The recording, if it turns out to be genuine, is a chilling illustration of the brutal attitude of Russian troops in the city, which has been under siege for weeks. "Damn them, kill them all," the commander is reported to say in a raised voice in the recording. "Civilians, everyone, kill them all."

The second man to take the announcement seems meek, the commander repeatedly resorting to insults and yelling at his soldier in between. In the end, the soldier only barely admits that he understands.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

FOCUS, Der Spiegel:


According to a report in Der Spiegel, Germany's Federal Intelligence Service has intercepted radio transmissions from Russian soldiers in which they discuss the atrocities in Butscha. Individual conversations are even said to match photographed corpses. In one radio message, a soldier tells another that he and his comrades shot a person off a bicycle. In another radio message, a man is heard saying that the Russian soldiers questioned civilians, then shot them.

According to "Spiegel," the radio transmissions reveal that the massacres are not the acts of individual soldiers gone wild. Rather, the acts seem planned. The conversations about them sound commonplace. This certainly suggests that the murder of civilians - as in previous wars - is part of the war strategy of the Russians.

The audio recordings of the BND, which were presented in the parliamentary room on Wednesday, according to "Spiegel", are further evidence that Russian troops are responsible for the massacres in Butscha and the surrounding area. Terrifyingly, the intelligence service has other audio documents that suggest that there are such massacres in other regions as well. So far, however, they cannot be clearly assigned to locations.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


Ukrainian intelligence has released an audio recording purporting to show a Russian commander talking to a soldier on the ground in Mariupol. The recording, if it turns out to be genuine, is a chilling illustration of the brutal attitude of Russian troops in the city, which has been under siege for weeks. "Damn them, kill them all," the commander is reported to say in a raised voice in the recording. "Civilians, everyone, kill them all."

The second man to take the announcement seems meek, the commander repeatedly resorting to insults and yelling at his soldier in between. In the end, the soldier only barely admits that he understands.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Just read this. It is all over the wire.



Quote:
The audio recordings also suggest that the Russian mercenary military, the Wagner Group, played a key role in the atrocities in Bucha, Der Spiegel reported.
It is not entirely clear who runs or finances the Wagner Group, but the US and European Union have linked Yevgeny Prigozhin, an oligarch and ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, to the organization.


Russian troops talked about killing civilians in Bucha over the radio

• The radio transmissions were obtained by German intelligence and presented in parliament Wednesday.
• They contradict Russian claims that the atrocities found in the Ukrainian town were staged.

Germany intercepted radio transmissions of Russian soldiers discussing the killings of civilians in the town of Bucha, contradicting Russian propaganda claims of a hoax, according to a report by Der Spiegel.
The radio transmissions were obtained by the Bundesnachrichtendienst, Germany's foreign intelligence service, and presented to parliament on Wednesday, Der Spiegel reported.
In one of the recordings, a Russian soldier could be heard describing how he shot someone off their bicycle, Der Spiegel reported.
It is unclear what day the radio messages were sent and where the Russian troops were at the time.

Footage and images of people killed, with some on the street, in Bucha emerged earlier this week after Russian forces left the town.
On Tuesday, The New York Times published independently verified aerial footage that shows a Russian armored vehicle shooting at a civilian on a bicycle in Bucha. It is unclear whether the person in the video was the same as the one referred to in the radio messages.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-i...100550605.html

[Skybird]

We should not be surprised, they did the same already in Chechnya, Syria... To massacre and regionally exterminate the civilian population deliberately and on purpose is obviously an integral part of Russian military doctrine.

In Germany, in Berlin, there are still Soviet memorials. Unbearable. It is time to tear down this garbage and put it out of sight. Atrocities committed by Soviet troops were commonplace even during and after the Second World War. In Berlin the mass rapes of surviving German women were known and feared by the population, in Germany this was kept quiet for a long time, until just a few years ago. The barbarism of Soviet/Russian armies has a long history. It lives on in Russian civil society, in the extremely high rate of violence of fathers against sons, and even more of men against women.

To try to deal with such a barbaric, bestial power with sanctions - which are even more dramatically limited - only shows how naive the sanctioner's perception of it is. The Russians' willingness to use violence extends not only to the fighters and civilians of the other side, but extends to the members of their own army and their own civil society and citizens. Brutality as a reason of state, both internally and externally.

Reason and talking is lost here. Only brute force can hope to acchieve something. I doubt that the European and American political leaders have really understood this already. German foreign ministress Baerbock a couple of weeks ago still was stunned by her realization that "The Russians obviously were lying us to our face".

How can one still be surprised of this, after Crimea, Donbass, Aleppo, Georgia, Grozny?

Although I must admit me too took these events too lightly, too sober, back then when they happened. But then, I am not at the helm of the state and get less information. When I err, it has practically no consequences for anyone except maybe myself.

We should start to no longer care for clever differences between "defensive" and "lethal" weapons, but send the Ukrainians that heavy weapons stuff that they desperately demand. In the east, their most experienced troops face the new Russian offensive and are in danger to get encircled and trapped, then wiped out. If that happens, the Ukraine likely will still collapse, because then they have lost the most experienced parts of their army that they had. That will be a different kind of warfare there. Short ranged, slowly relocating weapons like Panzerfaust-style weapons in urban combat, will be of much less use there, they now need armoured vehicles, tanks.

And whether we like it or not, if we seriously are interested in preventing the ukraine getting destroyed and the people exterminated and preventing Russia from winning the war, we need to start preparing for entering the war by closing the air space and enforcing that closure with force. That means our air forces need to engage anti-air threats on the ground, too. Nobody wants it, but without doing this, we only delay Russian victory, but most likely will not prevent it.

Or in brief, we must stop playing the game according to Putin's rule book. Its high time to start violating the rules he has designed to make sure he wins. And where he mounts threats in reaction, we must react by showing bigger threats. Where he shows determination, we must show bigger determination. Where he pushes, we must push back stronger. That is the onyl way.

The only way. The Vulcan "Hello", as this terrible new Start Trek Discovery series called it: read here, under Act Four:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki...Hello_(episode)


Everybody is afraid that we could provoke wordl war 3. But that ölogic is flawed, it bases on a false assumnption. Word War 3 already has started, and started long time ago. What has changed is that now is no longer a cold war, but has gone hot.



The war is on. And Chgina has chosen its side. Russia and China are no allies, no friends, but they have shared interests, and thats why they cooperate. Their priority is to destroy Western dominance and Western rules of world functioning. Due to our still maintained cowardice they already have made very good progress in this.


I dont like to see things like I describe, nor do i poike tpo speka them out. But its the only way in which things make sense to me. Hope is no strategy. Weakness is no value. Who refuses to accept the fight nevertheless can find out that he still can be killed.