Sinking neutral ships

[jaxa]

I'm reading Clay Blair's "Hitler's U-boat War" now (fourth or fifth time - one of the best book about U-boats ever written in my opinion) and I always wanted to know why in SH3/GWX we are punished for sinking neutral ships. German Uboats sinked many neutral ships without any problems from BdU (or with minor problems) during WW2 and Kaleun's lists of sink were increased by neutral BRT as same as hostile.

[STEED]

Hitler allowed attacks on neutral ships coming from America more so Russian Tankers in 1940, the U-Boats had to make it look like they struck a mine so they could get away with it.

[Happy Times]

I think NYGM "cloned" ships so that in convoys you could sink them. I dont know why GWX hasnt done this.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

I think NYGM "cloned" ships so that in convoys you could sink them. I dont know why GWX hasnt done this.

Because doing so would nearly double the size of the GWX download. Heavy price for little return.

Doing so would also likely double the loading times. We feel that if we must increase the loading times that we'd rather do it using completely new units.

You are not heavily punished for sinking neutrals in GWX... but you do get enough "punishment" to reflect that the world frowns on such practices.

Though sinkings of neutral ships did happen in RL... it did not happen every ten minutes... It was uncommon.

It is also irresponsible IMHO to indiscriminantly sink targets without identifying them.

Footnote: I recommend doing nothing more than enjoying the view if you happen across a hospital ship.

[Pablo]

Hi!

U-boats did indeed sink many neutral ships during World War II. Sometimes there was a problem, such as when Mexico declared war on Germany after Kapitänleutnant Reinhard "Teddy" Suhren in U-564 sank the Mexican tanker in Portrero de Llano May, 1942. At other times there were not, as when neutral ships were sunk while traveling in escorted convoys, or if an aggrieved country felt it was less damaging to suffer occasional predation by U-boats rather than risk general war with Germany.

One reason for this apparent discrepancy was that neutral ships sailing in a convoy protected by warships of a belligerent power were not considered "neutral" from the standpoint of the Hague Conventions, but neutral ships sailing alone and illuminated were considered "neutral." For example, Mexico claimed as casus belli the fact that the tanker that Kapitänleutnant Suhren sank was illuminated, though Suhren claimed it was not illuminated; on the other hand, Kapitänleutnant Erich Topp (U-552) sank the (ostensibly) neutral destroyer USS Reuben James in October 1941 without penalty because U.S. warships were acting as belligerents, although sinking U.S. merchant ships sailing alone was forbidden.

Stock Silent Hunter III treats any neutral ship as a neutral ship, regardless of whether it is in an escorted convoy or traveling alone. In game terms, it penalizes a player for sinking every possible target in sight without checking its flag to see to which country it belongs.

GWX simulates real life as far as possible by having a few illuminated ships that are used only by countries are currently neutral, but creating an illuminated "neutral" version of every merchant ship would be a lot of work as well as adding a lot of ships (and size) to GWX. The U.S. situation would also be fairly complex towards the end of 1941, with "hostile" warships and "neutral" merchant ships. Yikes!

Pablo

[melnibonian]

An easy way to get around the negative renown for sinking neutral ships is to edit the Cfg files. I usually set the renown to zero for neutral ships. That way you don't get penalised but you also don't get any rewards. I feel it's a good compromise given the limitations of the game that Kpt and Pablo explained above.