Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

Jimbuna · 12-08-13, 05:36 PM

Seems a little strange some people are desperate to join the EU but on the other hand if You are likely to get more out than you put in...why not?

Quote:

Hundreds of thousands of people have taken to the streets in the Ukrainian capital Kiev seeking the resignation of the government for refusing a deal on closer ties with the European Union.

Protesters, who oppose a customs union with Russia, toppled a statue of Lenin and smashed it with hammers.

President Viktor Yanukovych has said he shelved the EU deal after Russian opposition.

Protest leaders have given him 48 hours to dismiss the government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25290959

mapuc · 12-08-13, 05:41 PM

Wonder if they know enough about our beloved EU

Markus

Jimbuna · 12-08-13, 05:45 PM

Probably not but distancing themselves from Russia is probably a great incentive.

STEED · 12-08-13, 05:53 PM

Begging for money?

Skybird · 12-08-13, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Probably not but distancing themselves from Russia is probably a great incentive.

The Ukrainians are free to choose.

Between plague and cholera.

TarJak · 12-08-13, 07:07 PM

Which will they pick? Poo on toast or a turd sandwich?

TorpX · 12-08-13, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Probably not but distancing themselves from Russia is probably a great incentive.

I was thinking this as well. Most likely they will regret it, either way.

Jimbuna · 12-09-13, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

I was thinking this as well. Most likely they will regret it, either way.

I still remember what happened to Georgia.

TarJak · 12-09-13, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I still remember what happened to Georgia.

She was such a nice girl. Hey if Ukraine joins the EU, then can BossMark's girlfriend visit him any time she likes?

Jimbuna · 12-09-13, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

She was such a nice girl. Hey if Ukraine joins the EU, then can BossMark's girlfriend visit him any time she likes?

Yeah but only if he can find the space to keep her entourage/family

Dread Knot · 12-09-13, 06:52 AM

Well, the mob in Kiev certainly voted on their opinion of Lenin today.

Oberon · 01-22-14, 07:00 PM

Thread necromancy in light of the recent deaths in the Ukraine.

Things seem to be spiralling now, possibly beginning to come to a head. What started as a seemingly pro-EU rally is now primarily engaged on removing Yanukovich. Vitality Klitschko, the figurehead of the opposition, has said that the president should announce that is standing down and elections will be called, and has warned that "tomorrow, if the president does not respond... then we will go on the attack".
There's supposedly a crowd growing outside the US embassy and eggs have been thrown at the welcome sign amidst accusations from certain usual sources that the West is stirring up the protests in order to remove the pro-Russian Yanukovich.

I can't help but ponder how this is being viewed in the Kremlin, would Putin act to support Yanukovich if an armed uprising took place? Will Yanukovich release the army on the protesters? Tanks have been spotted on train transports but any relation to the protests have been denied strongly.

I suspect that Thursday may be a very interesting day for the Ukraine if Klitschko gets his way.

There's a live streaming video from the Ukraine, in Ukrainian:

Live updates in English here:
http://rt.com/news/kiev-protest-clashes-updates-862/

What appears to be live footage from the rooftops near the frontline of the protest:
http://rt.com/on-air/ukraine-kiev-police-protesters/

In slightly lighter news, the protesters did create their own catapult to launch rocks at the police, who responded with Roman-esque shield turtle tactics.

And, of course, the inevitable gas mask photo:

Skybird · 01-22-14, 07:32 PM

I would really like to learn about latest, trustworthy data on how the Ukrainian people in total stand on the issue "EU or Russia". But trustworthy data in a situation like this? It's all propaganda now, both inside and outside the Ukraine, both in Russia and in the EU.

Yanukovich has Putin, the Ukrainian establishment, the oligarchs and all the apparatschiks on his side. That forms a very very strong side already.

I expect that in the major cities, the big cities, people by majority are pro EU, but that in the rural places the pro-Russian sentiment dominates. The majorty of the population I think lives here.

Historically, there also is a second split that needs to be recognised: the Western part of the Ukraine, which historically has been part of the Donau monarchy and of Poland, and the Eastern part with the coal industry centres where people strongly tend towards Russia.

I see no reason to alter my opinion so far that the majority of the Ukrainians still is pro-Russia. The media coverage here in Germany, I believe, is not giving a complete picture, but transports a distorted info on the strength of the two sides. If Yanukovich decides to play it really the hard way, I see little chance for the protest movement to win. He holds the trumps. The opposition - anything but really being united - only has its desire, its rage and its frustration.

Things could become interesting in the unlikely event that the workers in the coal mines in the East decide to rebel against Yanukovich. But as already said, traditionally these are very pro-Russian, so this scenario is something I do not really expect to happen. and even if they kick Yanukovich - this does not mean that they want join the EU. They could kick Yanu and still prefer to ally with Russia.

All this is the front facade of the show only. The real strings are pulled by the oligarchs, and the Kremlin. In the end, even Yanukovich is just an expendable puppet.

nikimcbee · 01-23-14, 01:49 AM

@Oberon

Thanks for the Ukrainian link. It's interesting for me to hear Ukrainian vs Russian. I can hear the accent and they have some weird spellings. Reminds me of my Russian 202 level classes.

TarJak · 01-23-14, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

@Oberon

Thanks for the Ukrainian link. It's interesting for me to hear Ukrainian vs Russian. I can hear the accent and they have some weird spellings. Reminds me of my Russian 202 level classes.

Maybe you can translate for BossMark when his girlfriend gets cranky and forgets her Engleesh.

Seriously though its looking like the poo is hitting the fan over there right now. I don;t see them getting a clear majority either way on this one.

12-08-13, 05:45 PM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 171,042 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Probably not but distancing themselves from Russia is probably a great incentive. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

12-08-13, 05:53 PM	#4
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Begging for money? __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

01-22-14, 07:32 PM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 38,433 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I would really like to learn about latest, trustworthy data on how the Ukrainian people in total stand on the issue "EU or Russia". But trustworthy data in a situation like this? It's all propaganda now, both inside and outside the Ukraine, both in Russia and in the EU. Yanukovich has Putin, the Ukrainian establishment, the oligarchs and all the apparatschiks on his side. That forms a very very strong side already. I expect that in the major cities, the big cities, people by majority are pro EU, but that in the rural places the pro-Russian sentiment dominates. The majorty of the population I think lives here. Historically, there also is a second split that needs to be recognised: the Western part of the Ukraine, which historically has been part of the Donau monarchy and of Poland, and the Eastern part with the coal industry centres where people strongly tend towards Russia. I see no reason to alter my opinion so far that the majority of the Ukrainians still is pro-Russia. The media coverage here in Germany, I believe, is not giving a complete picture, but transports a distorted info on the strength of the two sides. If Yanukovich decides to play it really the hard way, I see little chance for the protest movement to win. He holds the trumps. The opposition - anything but really being united - only has its desire, its rage and its frustration. Things could become interesting in the unlikely event that the workers in the coal mines in the East decide to rebel against Yanukovich. But as already said, traditionally these are very pro-Russian, so this scenario is something I do not really expect to happen. and even if they kick Yanukovich - this does not mean that they want join the EU. They could kick Yanu and still prefer to ally with Russia. All this is the front facade of the show only. The real strings are pulled by the oligarchs, and the Kremlin. In the end, even Yanukovich is just an expendable puppet. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-23-14, 01:49 AM	#14
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,905 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	@Oberon Thanks for the Ukrainian link. It's interesting for me to hear Ukrainian vs Russian. I can hear the accent and they have some weird spellings. Reminds me of my Russian 202 level classes. __________________

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12-08-13, 05:41 PM	#2
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 15,852 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Wonder if they know enough about our beloved EU Markus

12-08-13, 07:07 PM	#6
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,055 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Which will they pick? Poo on toast or a turd sandwich?

12-09-13, 06:52 AM	#11
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hawkeye State Highlands Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	Well, the mob in Kiev certainly voted on their opinion of Lenin today.

01-22-14, 07:00 PM	#12
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Thread necromancy in light of the recent deaths in the Ukraine. Things seem to be spiralling now, possibly beginning to come to a head. What started as a seemingly pro-EU rally is now primarily engaged on removing Yanukovich. Vitality Klitschko, the figurehead of the opposition, has said that the president should announce that is standing down and elections will be called, and has warned that "tomorrow, if the president does not respond... then we will go on the attack". There's supposedly a crowd growing outside the US embassy and eggs have been thrown at the welcome sign amidst accusations from certain usual sources that the West is stirring up the protests in order to remove the pro-Russian Yanukovich. I can't help but ponder how this is being viewed in the Kremlin, would Putin act to support Yanukovich if an armed uprising took place? Will Yanukovich release the army on the protesters? Tanks have been spotted on train transports but any relation to the protests have been denied strongly. I suspect that Thursday may be a very interesting day for the Ukraine if Klitschko gets his way. There's a live streaming video from the Ukraine, in Ukrainian: Live updates in English here: http://rt.com/news/kiev-protest-clashes-updates-862/ What appears to be live footage from the rooftops near the frontline of the protest: http://rt.com/on-air/ukraine-kiev-police-protesters/ In slightly lighter news, the protesters did create their own catapult to launch rocks at the police, who responded with Roman-esque shield turtle tactics. And, of course, the inevitable gas mask photo: