SpaceX does it again!!! + Rolling out Starlink - Page 19

Onkel Neal · 12-10-20, 11:11 PM

This reminds me of diving from a 100' board and filling the pool 3 secs before you hit.

Onkel Neal · 02-02-21, 02:40 PM

Going for another Starship launch.

Rockstar · 02-02-21, 03:09 PM

Here we are in the year 2021 with state of the art technology standing on the launch pad. I can't help but think how very similar they look to the rocket ships in those classic 1950's-60's sci-fi movies.

Catfish · 02-02-21, 03:36 PM

^ this

Using 'rockets'.. in a gravitation well like 'earth' it makes sense to get to more than 11,000 km/second for an escape velocity, unless you do not want to waste unnecessary amounts of fuel (whatever you use) to escape more slowly, or even hover.
For landing (and leaving), fuel spent is most effective the closer you are to the gravitation well, so it makes sense to do it like SpaceX does. Not that this insight is especially new, but computers make all this a lot easier.
Regarding 'starlink' and the like, i think this is not a good idea with all the debris already blocking orbits.

Rockstar · 02-02-21, 03:40 PM

Calling Dr. Zarkov, calling Dr. Zarkov crash in aisle 9.

Onkel Neal · 02-02-21, 03:50 PM

Man, that's gotta be getting expensive.

No change from what I could see. May be time to consider parachutes?

Catfish · 02-02-21, 04:40 PM

There's so much money from Tesla.. oh.. wait ..

Parachutes still make sense, for emergency in the dense earth atmosphere, but also for deceleration done for free (fuel-wise), before the final touchdown 'softened' with deceleration boosters. An exact landing point is a problem as long as the parachutes cannot be trimmed; those adjustable breaking spoilers are a good idea, but too small.

OT:
I wonder why no one has mentioned Orangopoid in the last four years

Rockstar · 02-02-21, 05:57 PM

These prototype hulls are designed and tested with a Martian atmosphere in mind. The belly flop method and wings are meant to produce a certain amount of aerodynamic drag to help slow the vehicle down then retro-rockets can do the rest for a soft landing.

Parachutes are used on smaller probes sent to mars. Specially designed to withstand deployment at super sonic speeds and hopefully not tear apart. On top of that they still have to jettison the chute before retro-rockets are activated. Might be that attempting to design a chute large enough, and strong enough, able to withstand supersonic speeds for something the size of SN9 is just simply out of the question.

vienna · 02-02-21, 06:13 PM

Aw, there you go...

...using logic, again...

...

...

...

<O>

Catfish · 02-03-21, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

Aw, there you go...
...using logic, again...

...
...

...<O>

Hopeless

The gliding path within an atmosphere having less pressure than on this planet will be steeper than shown in the test vids. But as long as a planet has an atmosphere, it can be used for breaking. The thinner it is, the less usable, on the other hand it will not tear a chute apart that easily.
This ship is bigger than the self-landing thrusters alright, why not use the heat shielding first, then brake flaps, then a bundle of small chutes adding to the break flaps for mid-term deceleration, and the landing thrusters to be applied as late as possible.
The idea to brake and adjust position with a glide is genius, but you need this swing around manoeuver.
I wonder if this tumble comes due too late/low altitude (not enough time for proper stabilisation and deceleration), or if the problem is some mass shift in the tanks during this swing-around, and/or oscillation.

vienna · 02-03-21, 05:34 AM

I really don't know or understand why there is so much nay-saying about Space X's recent crash landing in terms of it being a catastrophic failure and possibly dooming Space X efforts for further space travel; just go back and look at all the footage of rocket development over the decades and see just how many crashes, launch pad explosions, etc., there were in the past; Goddard had a whole slew of failures before he got a fully workable concept; Von Braun, in his work during WW2 for Germany and later for the US space program, logged a goodly share of hiss own "ouchies"; there was once a sort of "best of" compilation of Von Braun's greatest V2 misses:

While Space X is not really starting from scratch and is building upon the technologies of prior designs, they are actually breaking serious new ground in aerospace advancement; the idea of launching a rocket, having it fly, and then landing it safely was, indeed, the stuff of science fiction and Saturday matinees/comic strips, but Space X, in an impressively short span of time from inception to success, has made it a now near normal reality, while other competing private aerospace efforts are still only launching single use boosters; a comment was made earlier about the expense of such failure as the recent Space X landing attempt; the same was said of the failures of Space X's earliest attempts to develop reusable boosters, but they did ultimately succeed and have now reduced the cost of per flight launches and payload delivery sufficiently to, moving forward, amortize the expenses of the failures, and, with continued steady success, they have placed themselves as the go-to, if not 'gold standard' of the aerospace industry...

One thing i must say about Space X and Elon Musk: say what you will about Musk as a person, but it is incredibly impressive that one person could have overseen and accomplished, in so short a time, the degree of success that he has; he is certainly an oddball and someone a normal person might steer clear of, but, damn it if he didn't pull it off while others, including heavily financed government efforts, are still stuck in a "launch 'em and lose 'em" booster cycle; Musk, and his various entrepreneurial projects, have been more than successful, even when it may seem on their face to be 'failures'; Tesla may not be the most successful of automotive companies, but by advancing the technology, even to the point of 'open sourcing' a lot of his developments to the auto industry in general, has moved human transportation further than anyone else has in decades; he may be a kook, but, then so were Hughes and Tesla and Edison, etc., etc.,...

I have little doubt the type of landing the Starship was attempting will be stuck and I have very little doubt Space X and Musk will be the first to do it...

<O>

Catfish · 02-03-21, 06:10 AM

They will succeed, i'm sure.

Aktungbby · 02-03-21, 12:59 PM

^ so when ya gonna volunteer BBY

Catfish · 02-03-21, 01:29 PM

^

I am stranded here anyway, and even with volunteering this gets me nowhere - and no one will let "me".
Those are still rockets going through their evolution, not yet space "ships" by any standard. This crash is only a mishap with others following, but the faster data processing systems get, the easier it gets.. leaving the qubit range will change a lot of things, and a change in political and "currency" systems will be self-evident.
There are also other private ventures developing smaller rocket systems, but they do not get much attention yet.
To leave this planet and get away in the long run, this is a good "makeshift" project, and necessary. I hope Musk can get on without going bankrupt. I do not know enough of him, but he succeeds, and is fast enough to see the next generation.

Onkel Neal · 02-08-21, 11:42 AM

Next one coming soon, https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-sta...ch-plans-asap/

I hope they get it right. Seems like they should do all the flips and burns a little higher off the ground to allow for mistakes and adjustments.

12-10-20, 11:11 PM	#271
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	This reminds me of diving from a 100' board and filling the pool 3 secs before you hit. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

02-02-21, 03:09 PM	#273
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,856 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Here we are in the year 2021 with state of the art technology standing on the launch pad. I can't help but think how very similar they look to the rocket ships in those classic 1950's-60's sci-fi movies. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

02-02-21, 03:36 PM	#274
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ this Using 'rockets'.. in a gravitation well like 'earth' it makes sense to get to more than 11,000 km/second for an escape velocity, unless you do not want to waste unnecessary amounts of fuel (whatever you use) to escape more slowly, or even hover. For landing (and leaving), fuel spent is most effective the closer you are to the gravitation well, so it makes sense to do it like SpaceX does. Not that this insight is especially new, but computers make all this a lot easier. Regarding 'starlink' and the like, i think this is not a good idea with all the debris already blocking orbits. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-02-21, 03:40 PM	#275
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,856 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Calling Dr. Zarkov, calling Dr. Zarkov crash in aisle 9. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

02-02-21, 03:50 PM	#276
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Man, that's gotta be getting expensive. No change from what I could see. May be time to consider parachutes? __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

02-02-21, 02:40 PM	#272
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Going for another Starship launch.

02-02-21, 04:40 PM	#277
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	There's so much money from Tesla.. oh.. wait .. Parachutes still make sense, for emergency in the dense earth atmosphere, but also for deceleration done for free (fuel-wise), before the final touchdown 'softened' with deceleration boosters. An exact landing point is a problem as long as the parachutes cannot be trimmed; those adjustable breaking spoilers are a good idea, but too small. OT: I wonder why no one has mentioned Orangopoid in the last four years __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-02-21, 05:57 PM	#278
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,856 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	These prototype hulls are designed and tested with a Martian atmosphere in mind. The belly flop method and wings are meant to produce a certain amount of aerodynamic drag to help slow the vehicle down then retro-rockets can do the rest for a soft landing. Parachutes are used on smaller probes sent to mars. Specially designed to withstand deployment at super sonic speeds and hopefully not tear apart. On top of that they still have to jettison the chute before retro-rockets are activated. Might be that attempting to design a chute large enough, and strong enough, able to withstand supersonic speeds for something the size of SN9 is just simply out of the question. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 02-02-21 at 11:45 PM.

02-02-21, 06:13 PM	#279
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,507 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Aw, there you go... ...using logic, again... ... ...... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

02-03-21, 05:34 AM	#281
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,507 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I really don't know or understand why there is so much nay-saying about Space X's recent crash landing in terms of it being a catastrophic failure and possibly dooming Space X efforts for further space travel; just go back and look at all the footage of rocket development over the decades and see just how many crashes, launch pad explosions, etc., there were in the past; Goddard had a whole slew of failures before he got a fully workable concept; Von Braun, in his work during WW2 for Germany and later for the US space program, logged a goodly share of hiss own "ouchies"; there was once a sort of "best of" compilation of Von Braun's greatest V2 misses: While Space X is not really starting from scratch and is building upon the technologies of prior designs, they are actually breaking serious new ground in aerospace advancement; the idea of launching a rocket, having it fly, and then landing it safely was, indeed, the stuff of science fiction and Saturday matinees/comic strips, but Space X, in an impressively short span of time from inception to success, has made it a now near normal reality, while other competing private aerospace efforts are still only launching single use boosters; a comment was made earlier about the expense of such failure as the recent Space X landing attempt; the same was said of the failures of Space X's earliest attempts to develop reusable boosters, but they did ultimately succeed and have now reduced the cost of per flight launches and payload delivery sufficiently to, moving forward, amortize the expenses of the failures, and, with continued steady success, they have placed themselves as the go-to, if not 'gold standard' of the aerospace industry... One thing i must say about Space X and Elon Musk: say what you will about Musk as a person, but it is incredibly impressive that one person could have overseen and accomplished, in so short a time, the degree of success that he has; he is certainly an oddball and someone a normal person might steer clear of, but, damn it if he didn't pull it off while others, including heavily financed government efforts, are still stuck in a "launch 'em and lose 'em" booster cycle; Musk, and his various entrepreneurial projects, have been more than successful, even when it may seem on their face to be 'failures'; Tesla may not be the most successful of automotive companies, but by advancing the technology, even to the point of 'open sourcing' a lot of his developments to the auto industry in general, has moved human transportation further than anyone else has in decades; he may be a kook, but, then so were Hughes and Tesla and Edison, etc., etc.,... I have little doubt the type of landing the Starship was attempting will be stuck and I have very little doubt Space X and Musk will be the first to do it... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

02-03-21, 06:10 AM	#282
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	They will succeed, i'm sure. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-03-21, 12:59 PM	#283
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,874 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	^ so when ya gonna volunteer BBY __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

02-03-21, 01:29 PM	#284
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ I am stranded here anyway, and even with volunteering this gets me nowhere - and no one will let "me". Those are still rockets going through their evolution, not yet space "ships" by any standard. This crash is only a mishap with others following, but the faster data processing systems get, the easier it gets.. leaving the qubit range will change a lot of things, and a change in political and "currency" systems will be self-evident. There are also other private ventures developing smaller rocket systems, but they do not get much attention yet. To leave this planet and get away in the long run, this is a good "makeshift" project, and necessary. I hope Musk can get on without going bankrupt. I do not know enough of him, but he succeeds, and is fast enough to see the next generation. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-08-21, 11:42 AM	#285
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Next one coming soon, https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-sta...ch-plans-asap/ I hope they get it right. Seems like they should do all the flips and burns a little higher off the ground to allow for mistakes and adjustments.