US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 482

Skybird · 07-19-19, 10:32 AM

There are mostly two forms of identity today.

The one is formal and bureaucratic, and bases on official papers with some official stamp on it. You fill a form, some uniform-wearer or clerk stamps it, and you are thos or that from that moment on. Formally.

The other is basing on life-long grown feeling of identit,y based on history, cilutre, socialisation, values,, memories, perosnal traits that formed up and itnercted with the environment. Its where the heart is, family came from, where people emotionaly reflect over. Etc. etc. etc.

Botht hings are two very, very diferent things.

This does not stop clever progressives to abuse the first definition as a strawman argument to defend peoiple who lack the latter.

Its the reason why I formed the habit to call some foreigner from far away who arrived and lives in Germany without being assimilated by German identity and even resisting to integrate himself, not a "German", but for example a Nigerian with german ID papers. - And yes, I said "assimilate". Becasue lets face it: to integrate yourself means that you allow getting assimilated by the new cultural context you have sought for, anbd found, and entered. No assimilation = no integration.

The bureaucratic definition of identity is lifeless and only helps bureaucrats and law-givers to keep their office problems sorted and in order. The latter definition however is what is the living reality and that decides what kind of person you are dealing with. The latter is the far more important definition. Its why the integraiton of the poverwhelming lion'S share of Musli migrants in Germany (and elsewhere in Europe) over the past decades has failed although they are officially "German". Islam knows no category "nationality", and "national state".

You can be called of this or that nationality, but without identifying with it. While you also can identify yourself with it, without having that nationality.

Lefties and progressive hate to be told this, it spoils their propaganda. For them, identity must come from the ideologiy-lab, totally arbitraily constructed due to opportunistic planning and intention, approved by their worldview, and opportunistically supporting their cause. The goal is always the same: to gain control and powert over people and subjugate them to one's own command.

I can tell from experience that outside the West people and regional culturres are not as degenerated as the West in general when it comes to the value and importance of identity (or family, while we are at it).

And the ancient Greek, the people whose city states we call the cradle of democracy, did not allow free rich man (= "citizens" these are, the only "citizens" there were) to raise their voice in the city assembly and to give their vote on issues who were up to be decided on, without these citizens beign able to prove a solid renown for being loyal to the family ancestors, the culture and religion of the city, and its deities. Multi-Culti? Allowing just any Peter and Paul and strolling dog and unknown foreigner in, and give him a word on decisions affecting the city's interest? Endlessly relativising one'S own identity and values until nothing was left of them anymore and the foreign is rated as precious already ust because it is not oneself? Maybe in the madhouse that the West is today. But not in the cradle of democracy, ancient Greece. There it would have been seen as treason.

Decadence, infantilization, cultural degeneration everywhere in the West. A growing of weakness and impotence, the rules of the orioginal inhabitants of places having less and lesser relevance. Laws being up to getting violated by the state himself, so that braking law and treaty becomes valid state reason (Merkel always on my mind), states that first have ursurped power monopoles and now being increasingly impotent to fulfill the services and duties they once promised to deliver. Its the final act of the play, the final curtain has been risen, and the horns and trumpets have started the final fanfare for the great, sad final.

u crank · 07-19-19, 11:37 AM

This whole 'go back where you came from' dust up confirms that the progressive left has perfected the race card. Any criticism of a nonwhite person by a white person immediately gets the 'racist' card played. It doesn't matter whether it is a legitimate criticism or a true fact. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar are the experts at this. They used it against Trump and they used it against Pelosi. In both instances the criticism was well founded but that doesn't matter. It's a child's game.

em2nought · 07-19-19, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u crank

This whole 'go back where you came from' dust up confirms that the progressive left has perfected the race card. Any criticism of a nonwhite person by a white person immediately gets the 'racist' card played. It doesn't matter whether it is a legitimate criticism or a true fact. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar are the experts at this. They used it against Trump and they used it against Pelosi. In both instances the criticism was well founded but that doesn't matter. It's a child's game.

"Stupid" isn't a race, and neither is socialist. LOL

eddie · 07-20-19, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Europeans go home

(Google translation)

"By noon, finally, all Americans with roots abroad have left the country. The Aponivi Enapay ("uninsured eagle") Indian walks alone through the empty streets of Washington, past several bales Tumbleweed, to the White House. Unnoticed, he seizes power and subjugates all other aborigines. On Twitter he just wrote: "Make Native America Great Again"."

LOL

JU_88 · 07-20-19, 04:56 AM

LOL Eddie

Touche ^

All said and done about Trumps (Go back) line being 'out of line'
what gets ignored is the full context of who is it aimed at an Why.

Of the the Four targeted women, congress woman Ilhan Omar has basically nothing positive to say about the U.S. and Americans in general.
She quite vocally dislikes Jews and has a negative view of Whites (because they all have privilege through the ol' intersectional lense, and bla bla bla.)
She is quite the privileged bigot herself :P, so I cant say I feel much if any empathy for her personally.

No- I disliked Trumps words because its cheap and dangerous rhetoric that only deepens racial tensions and hurts people who did nothing wrong.
And its completely unnecessary to go that low to challenge the ideas of the likes of Omar and Cortez, because their ideas are mostly crap and they pretty much hang them selves anyway.

Sigh*

Similar thing with the Mayor of London here - Sadiq Kahn, when he got elected. The Far right was predictably proclaiming, 'London has fallen' 'Sharia Law by tomorrow' Sky is falling in' etc

While for Far left was of course bathing in their self congratulatory warm diarrhea 'how progressive we are for electing a Muslim'...

Who was actually talking about his policies? Nobody really, the focus was all on 'what' not 'who' he was. Both Right and Left being 100% identitarian Morons.

And here we are again.
"Pick a side everyone! so we can obviously call you a communist or a racist, because we should all be morons who can only see in black and white."

Onkel Neal · 07-20-19, 07:03 AM

Eddie,

JU_88, you nailed it, it's a sad state we find ourselves in. I fear it will only get worse. We can do a lot better than Donald Trump as our leader. There have to be better candidates out there, someone with a little class and dignity who will form policies that strengthen our our country and not simply pander to groups and their self-interests. I just wish that candidate would show up.

ikalugin · 07-20-19, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

LOL

Blood and soil argument?

u crank · 07-20-19, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

There have to be better candidates out there, someone with a little class and dignity who will form policies that strengthen our our country and not simply pander to groups and their self-interests. I just wish that candidate would show up.

There's your trouble. Both sides are playing a zero sum game. The policies being touted by the current crop of Democratic candidates would put Bill Clinton and Barack Obama in the Republican party as moderates. I don't see any viable candidates on either side talking about reaching out to the middle ground. Well except Marianne Williamson.

Maybe it's time to look offshore. I am available.

ikalugin · 07-20-19, 07:59 AM

Do you have valuable skills?

u crank · 07-20-19, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Do you have valuable skills?

Yep. I got a lot of free time.

Bilge_Rat · 07-20-19, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Eddie,

JU_88, you nailed it, it's a sad state we find ourselves in. I fear it will only get worse. We can do a lot better than Donald Trump as our leader. There have to be better candidates out there, someone with a little class and dignity who will form policies that strengthen our our country and not simply pander to groups and their self-interests. I just wish that candidate would show up.

Agreed.

I remember reading somewhere that the only people who ran for President had enormous egos, very thick skins, killer instincts and willingness to walk over their own mothers for the job.

There are many persons who could do a decent job at it, but very few are wiling to put up with the process to get there.

Trump is far from the ideal POTUS, but the choice in 2020 won't be between Trump and the ideal candidate, but Trump vs whoever the Dems put up.

Skybird · 07-20-19, 08:47 AM

The political systems in the West are such that not the best, most competent, most suited by character, the most self-controlled, calm and reasonable people get elected, but those who lie the most ruthlessly, boast the most unscrupulously, make promises the most infinitely, nod at the most of peoples' wishes and demands, and are embedded and raised in the bigger corrupted networks of people being like this.

If you want better candidates, Neal, you need to want a better electorate first.

The candidates are just a mirror's reflection of the electorate.

Platapus · 07-20-19, 09:14 AM

The quandary is that anyone who wants to be president is most likely not a person we want as president.

vienna · 07-20-19, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u crank

Yep. I got a lot of free time.

I don't know if that's a selling point...

...maybe if you couch it in terms like DT does for all the time (i.e., most of his time) he goofs off, ya know, call it "executive time"...

<O>

u crank · 07-20-19, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

...maybe if you couch it in terms like DT does for all the time (i.e., most of his time) he goofs off, ya know, call it "executive time"...

It seems like the President hardly breaks a sweat keeping the 'derangement' crowd busy. That alone is worth the price of admission.

07-19-19, 10:32 AM	#7216
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,507 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	There are mostly two forms of identity today. The one is formal and bureaucratic, and bases on official papers with some official stamp on it. You fill a form, some uniform-wearer or clerk stamps it, and you are thos or that from that moment on. Formally. The other is basing on life-long grown feeling of identit,y based on history, cilutre, socialisation, values,, memories, perosnal traits that formed up and itnercted with the environment. Its where the heart is, family came from, where people emotionaly reflect over. Etc. etc. etc. Botht hings are two very, very diferent things. This does not stop clever progressives to abuse the first definition as a strawman argument to defend peoiple who lack the latter. Its the reason why I formed the habit to call some foreigner from far away who arrived and lives in Germany without being assimilated by German identity and even resisting to integrate himself, not a "German", but for example a Nigerian with german ID papers. - And yes, I said "assimilate". Becasue lets face it: to integrate yourself means that you allow getting assimilated by the new cultural context you have sought for, anbd found, and entered. No assimilation = no integration. The bureaucratic definition of identity is lifeless and only helps bureaucrats and law-givers to keep their office problems sorted and in order. The latter definition however is what is the living reality and that decides what kind of person you are dealing with. The latter is the far more important definition. Its why the integraiton of the poverwhelming lion'S share of Musli migrants in Germany (and elsewhere in Europe) over the past decades has failed although they are officially "German". Islam knows no category "nationality", and "national state". You can be called of this or that nationality, but without identifying with it. While you also can identify yourself with it, without having that nationality. Lefties and progressive hate to be told this, it spoils their propaganda. For them, identity must come from the ideologiy-lab, totally arbitraily constructed due to opportunistic planning and intention, approved by their worldview, and opportunistically supporting their cause. The goal is always the same: to gain control and powert over people and subjugate them to one's own command. I can tell from experience that outside the West people and regional culturres are not as degenerated as the West in general when it comes to the value and importance of identity (or family, while we are at it). And the ancient Greek, the people whose city states we call the cradle of democracy, did not allow free rich man (= "citizens" these are, the only "citizens" there were) to raise their voice in the city assembly and to give their vote on issues who were up to be decided on, without these citizens beign able to prove a solid renown for being loyal to the family ancestors, the culture and religion of the city, and its deities. Multi-Culti? Allowing just any Peter and Paul and strolling dog and unknown foreigner in, and give him a word on decisions affecting the city's interest? Endlessly relativising one'S own identity and values until nothing was left of them anymore and the foreign is rated as precious already ust because it is not oneself? Maybe in the madhouse that the West is today. But not in the cradle of democracy, ancient Greece. There it would have been seen as treason. Decadence, infantilization, cultural degeneration everywhere in the West. A growing of weakness and impotence, the rules of the orioginal inhabitants of places having less and lesser relevance. Laws being up to getting violated by the state himself, so that braking law and treaty becomes valid state reason (Merkel always on my mind), states that first have ursurped power monopoles and now being increasingly impotent to fulfill the services and duties they once promised to deliver. Its the final act of the play, the final curtain has been risen, and the horns and trumpets have started the final fanfare for the great, sad final. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-19-19, 11:37 AM	#7217
u crank Old enough to know better Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 11,560 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	This whole 'go back where you came from' dust up confirms that the progressive left has perfected the race card. Any criticism of a nonwhite person by a white person immediately gets the 'racist' card played. It doesn't matter whether it is a legitimate criticism or a true fact. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar are the experts at this. They used it against Trump and they used it against Pelosi. In both instances the criticism was well founded but that doesn't matter. It's a child's game. __________________ “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

07-20-19, 04:56 AM	#7220
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,727 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	LOL Eddie Touche ^ All said and done about Trumps (Go back) line being 'out of line' what gets ignored is the full context of who is it aimed at an Why. Of the the Four targeted women, congress woman Ilhan Omar has basically nothing positive to say about the U.S. and Americans in general. She quite vocally dislikes Jews and has a negative view of Whites (because they all have privilege through the ol' intersectional lense, and bla bla bla.) She is quite the privileged bigot herself :P, so I cant say I feel much if any empathy for her personally. No- I disliked Trumps words because its cheap and dangerous rhetoric that only deepens racial tensions and hurts people who did nothing wrong. And its completely unnecessary to go that low to challenge the ideas of the likes of Omar and Cortez, because their ideas are mostly crap and they pretty much hang them selves anyway. Sigh* Similar thing with the Mayor of London here - Sadiq Kahn, when he got elected. The Far right was predictably proclaiming, 'London has fallen' 'Sharia Law by tomorrow' Sky is falling in' etc While for Far left was of course bathing in their self congratulatory warm diarrhea 'how progressive we are for electing a Muslim'... Who was actually talking about his policies? Nobody really, the focus was all on 'what' not 'who' he was. Both Right and Left being 100% identitarian Morons. And here we are again. "Pick a side everyone! so we can obviously call you a communist or a racist, because we should all be morons who can only see in black and white." Last edited by JU_88; 07-20-19 at 05:19 AM.

07-20-19, 07:03 AM	#7221
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,287 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Eddie, JU_88, you nailed it, it's a sad state we find ourselves in. I fear it will only get worse. We can do a lot better than Donald Trump as our leader. There have to be better candidates out there, someone with a little class and dignity who will form policies that strengthen our our country and not simply pander to groups and their self-interests. I just wish that candidate would show up. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

07-20-19, 07:59 AM	#7224
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Do you have valuable skills? __________________ Grumpy as always.

07-20-19, 08:47 AM	#7227
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,507 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The political systems in the West are such that not the best, most competent, most suited by character, the most self-controlled, calm and reasonable people get elected, but those who lie the most ruthlessly, boast the most unscrupulously, make promises the most infinitely, nod at the most of peoples' wishes and demands, and are embedded and raised in the bigger corrupted networks of people being like this. If you want better candidates, Neal, you need to want a better electorate first. The candidates are just a mirror's reflection of the electorate. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-20-19, 09:14 AM	#7228
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,954 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	The quandary is that anyone who wants to be president is most likely not a person we want as president. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.