The Turkish-Kurdish Dilemma

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by eddie

And now General Bone Spurs and his unmatched wisdom, has opened a highway for Iran to send weapons to Hezbollah, with no one to stop it. Got to puke over his so called wisdom!

No one? Take your pick of Syrian rebels or government forces all are accepting volunteers. You'll fit in better if you grow a beard and don't forget your sunscreen. Go for it, you only live once put your money where mouth is and dont forget to write. btw we still have troops in Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." ~ George S. McGovern

[Jimbuna]

The UK government is to suspend arms export licences to Turkey amid concerns over its military operation in northern Syria, Downing Street has said.

Speaking in the Commons, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said the UK would keep its exports to Turkey under "very careful and continual review".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50056358

'A day late and a pound short'

[Catfish]

"Trump sanctions fail to slow Turkey assault; Moscow's allies advance.

Trump’s unexpected decision to withhold protection from Syria’s Kurds after a phone call with Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan a week ago swiftly upended five years of U.S. policy in the Middle East, giving a free hand to Washington’s adversaries in the world’s deadliest ongoing war."

America's adversaries maybe, but not Trump's.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN1WU1D8

[Mr Quatro]

It could've gone the other way:

"Breaking News"
"Turkey attacks Kurds killing all fifty US defenders
Bracketing the 1,000 man Special Forces nearby
Putting them on the run"

"Congress demands immediate military action"

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

It could've gone the other way:

"Breaking News"
"Turkey attacks Kurds killing all fifty US defenders
Bracketing the 1,000 man Special Forces nearby
Putting them on the run"

"Congress demands immediate military action"

True that but there are many out there who would have taken that chance I suspect.

[Rockstar]

Ok here's what I have understood so far. In brief, our reason for being in Syria I was first told was to stop ISIS. Then it appeared we were actually there to assist the many militant political factions oust Syrian president Bashar Hafez al-Assad. The U.S. I think wisely removes itself form that crap hole. Now from what I've read Turkey, a NATO member, has been for years arming anti-Assad forces and is currently encroaching on Syrian territory with the removal of Assad in mind. Now it is the Iran-led Shiite ideology and the Turkey-backed Muslim Brotherhood movements fighting.

With Russia back on the defensive standing in between the two trying to protect their interests in Syria again. удачи

[ikalugin]

Our interests are mostly in Alawite coastal areas and thus safu.

[u crank]

America did not get involved in Syria to be the Kurds bodyguards. Kurds and Turks have been fighting for centuries. Are Americans going to have a permanent military presence in Syria to accomplish this goal of 'protecting the Kurds'? How much will it cost? How long will it last? How many (God forbid) American lives will be given up to accomplish this? The neocon war mongers who criticize Trump's withdrawal never address these questions. The correct answers by them are ... the more the better, the longer the better and don't care.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Ok here's what I have understood so far. In brief, our reason for being in Syria I was first told was to stop ISIS. Then it appeared we were actually there to assist the many militant political factions oust Syrian president Bashar Hafez al-Assad. The U.S. I think wisely removes itself form that crap hole. Now from what I've read Turkey, a NATO member, has been for years arming anti-Assad forces and is currently encroaching on Syrian territory with the removal of Assad in mind. Now it is the Iran-led Shiite ideology and the Turkey-backed Muslim Brotherhood movements fighting.

While I can see, and to major parts support, the American attitude of wanting to get out there, my quarrel is with the timing and conditions under which this pulling out has been initiated, not minding to break lots of glas and porcellaine and not caring for betraying an ally who already had bled for you and now you throw him before a monster that has in principle genocide on mind. Trump obviously did not warn Erdoghan of attacking into Northern Syria, and did not tell him of crippling sanctions or any other means that would have stopped Erdoghan from doing what he did. Not before the global echo condemned Trump as well, even parts of his own party tunrign against him over Syria, he suddenly wanted to push the paste he squeezed out back into the tube again. And while he starts to do his wonderful Trumponian magic again, born out of his great and unmatched wisdom (tm) of course, Kurds already got killed by hundreds if not thousands, and atrocities and acts of genocide are already being carried out by Erodghan's fundamentalist allies. Trumps uses his great and ummatched wisdom (tm) - and the Kurds pay the price in blood and lives and torment.

You can leave a lame party you do not like, and do so with some tactful choosing of opportunity and wording, or you leave like an elephant in a glasshouse, smashing evertyhing, breaking everything, demolating the furniture and all windows, not minding the hosts' family and friends slashing their hands and feet in all the broken glass, and not caring for it. I accept America wanting to choose the first, and then following that line. I dispise it for having chosen the latter and not minding the damages it leaves behind for others to get along with.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

"Trump sanctions fail to slow Turkey assault; Moscow's allies advance.

Trump’s unexpected decision to withhold protection from Syria’s Kurds after a phone call with Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan a week ago swiftly upended five years of U.S. policy in the Middle East, giving a free hand to Washington’s adversaries in the world’s deadliest ongoing war."

America's adversaries maybe, but not Trump's.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN1WU1D8

I dont think sanctions placed by any NATO member is meant to slow Turkey down. It's just meant to look good in front of the camera.

[Skybird]

WP reports Russian troops are now patrolling the spaces separating Syrian and Turkish forces.


Russia starts to completely fill the vaccum the Americans left behind. Putin must find it hard these days to stop grinning.

[Mr Quatro]

I just saw that 5 minutes ago couldn't believe it ... This is no port city

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I just saw that 5 minutes ago couldn't believe it ... This is no port city

Many will see it as American overseas influence in dramatic decline.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Skybird

While I can see, and to major parts support, the American attitude of wanting to get out there, my quarrel is with the timing and conditions under which this pulling out has been initiated, not minding to break lots of glas and porcellaine and not caring for betraying an ally who already had bled for you and now you throw him before a monster that has in principle genocide on mind. Trump obviously did not warn Erdoghan of attacking into Northern Syria, and did not tell him of crippling sanctions or any other means that would have stopped Erdoghan from doing what he did. Not before the global echo condemned Trump as well, even parts of his own party tunrign against him over Syria, he suddenly wanted to push the paste he squeezed out back into the tube again. And while he starts to do his wonderful Trumponian magic again, born out of his great and unmatched wisdom (tm) of course, Kurds already got killed by hundreds if not thousands, and atrocities and acts of genocide are already being carried out by Erodghan's fundamentalist allies. Trumps uses his great and ummatched wisdom (tm) - and the Kurds pay the price in blood and lives and torment.

You can leave a lame party you do not like, and do so with some tactful choosing of opportunity and wording, or you leave like an elephant in a glasshouse, smashing evertyhing, breaking everything, demolating the furniture and all windows, not minding the hosts' family and friends slashing their hands and feet in all the broken glass, and not caring for it. I accept America wanting to choose the first, and then following that line. I dispise it for having chosen the latter and not minding the damages it leaves behind for others to get along with.

I dont like it either. Other than the 'freedom and democracy' rhetoric it never was very clear to me why we were in Syria to begin with but I'll say this it sure as hell wasn't to make friends. We cant achieve goals if there were no clear goals stated so I dont see how our departure could have been any different. As u crank mentioned the wars and animosities between tribes and political factions in the middle east are centuries old. Nothing really changed, it was a quagmire when we arrived and still a quagmire when we left and nobody here ever said they had to keep fighting and killing each other.

[August]

Originally Posted by u crank

The neocon war mongers who criticize Trump's withdrawal never address these questions. The correct answers by them are ... the more the better, the longer the better and don't care.

Then there is the Orange Man Bad crowd who claim to care what happens to the Kurds but only because it targets Trump. Politics makes strange bedfellows.