Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[h.sie]

@Dani: I was able to program random torpedo failures (took less than one hour). I like these quick-fixes.

When the user presses the fire-button, the torpedo data is copied from the TDC dials into the torpedo itself. With a certain probability p (failure rate), I can change the depth of the eel to, say, 25 meters, in order to simulate a failure.

Currently, I can make p dependent on the date/time and on the windspeed, but not on torpedo type.

The questions are now:

1) how to chose p = f(time, windspeed).

2) is a dependency on torpedo type also necessary?

Random torpedo failures ?

Like failure to launch torpedo ? I believe this is not another dud torpedo failure you have in mind ?

[h.sie]

No failure to launch torpedo. But functional failure. There were a lot during the early years of war.

See here (unfortunately in german):

http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/krieg/boote_ohne_waffe.html

- premature detonations
- depth maintaining problems
- no explosion on impact

Doenitz wrote in his war diary, that the Uboats were quasi without weapons (in the early time of war)

[SquareSteelBar]

There's is already a dud torp option in 'Reality Adjustments' - what's the difference?

[h.sie]

@SSB: AFAIK the failure rates of that option are too low. As you can see in the post #2539, Uboats were quasi disarmed in the early time due to massive failures.

[slipper]

When you unzip the V16A3 patch kit there are 2 text files called "_Append_to_en_menu " and "_Append_to_de_menu".
You must copy the text from these files and paste them at the end of the last line in en_menu and de_menu in you're main SH3 installation.

Or, you can read the readme document that came with the patch kit. It's all explained better there.

Yeah thanks for that, i am aware of the readme, i have followed it to the letter three times now but still do not recieve messages. This is my mod loadout

LifeBoats&Debris_v4
IIa Tuneup
GWX_DFa-Flag&Pens_2010
FM30_UpDown_final
DD_OH_V3.09_20091209162038
FM_NewInterior_V1.0
Conning Tower open Hatch TestFMfood
Depthcharge Shake v2.01
Merchant_Fleet_Mod_3.2
MFM-v3-US+UK_Skins19390901
Ricks_GWX_Rec_Man_Final
Urfischs_ModStrike_Beta1
Waterstream+Exhaust Combi V2.3 for GWX3
New Uboat Guns 1.2
M.E.P v3
MEP v3 VisualSensors for gwx3
SH-5 Water for GWX 3.0 V0.8 20 Km Atlantic campaign (default)
OLC_DasBoot_Green
OLC's Modified Searchlight Beams for GWX3
Torpedo damage Final ver2.0
Foam
WAC4.1 SubPen_animated_18.02.2010
Combat Radio Frequency
Flags_enlighten
Unofficial_rockets_fix_GWX3.0
No continuous 'Ship spotted' V1.2 for GWX3+Rubinis RocketFix
Rapt0r's Das Boot Interior
Rapt0r's Das Boot Skin
Rapt0r's Instruments V3.5 [Without Red Circle]
b25_ConningTower_Mid
Wooden_Lifeboats_Mod_1.1
Subphones
GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6
WB's GWX campaign with VonDos' ships v2.7
GWX - Merged Campaign
TMTv2+ThomsensShips v4.4 for GWX3+Xtra ships
WB - TMT fix
Q Ship mod for GWX3 - Reloaded
GWX3 - VM Plotting Mod 2 (hard)
Aces' Multimod compatability fix release v1.3 public beta
Hitman_Beta_GUI_GWX3_1.0
Aces' Multimod compatability fix Hitman GUI add on
Aces' St. Nazaire Sub Pens v2 for Wilhelmshafen,St Naz. Schleuse and xtra ships v5
ImprovedMalloy'sRuler
Raptors Atmospheric Sound Package
DBSM
Rapt0r's DBSM Addon
SH3MoonMod
BritishAsdicMkIFinal
b25_Louder_Diesels_Louder
Internal U-Boat Sound Effect
Alternate Torpedo Hit
Undersea_Mod_Reworked
Kiel Map Detail
TiefeMkI(German)
Real Depth Charge
High RPM
GWX3 - 02.UBA RT Fatigue x032 (MostRealistic)
Red Night Filter
SH4 Maptools for SH3-Stock
Mine by TP
Evan82's Uniforms II
The Elite U-Boat Crew Uniform II
The Captain Uniform II
Lutzow's Officers - SET6
Hunter's Moon
hsMachineTelegraphGer v0.1 alpha
Extreme Wet Weather Gear Mod
Destroyers&Corvette
DasBootSehrohr
Knotspeed
Remove Searchlights from Merchants
Remove Searchlights from Warships
Walrus by TP
TorpedoTubesFfireFinal vGW
Compatibility Remove SL from Merchants+WBs ExtraShipsV2.4
Compatibility Remove SL from Warships+WBs ExtraShipsV2.4
TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_v1_4_SH3
FlatSunFix for M.E.P v3
SH-5 Water for GWX 3.0 V0.8 20 Km Atlantic campaign (default)trial
sobers 3d waves
O2-Gauges v2
Supplement to V16A3 (JSGME)

when i add the Supplement to V16A3 (JSGME) it overwrites the following

"Campaign_SCR.mis" has already been altered by the "GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6" mod.
"Campaign_SCR.mis" has already been altered by the "WB's GWX campaign with VonDos' ships v2.7" mod.
"Campaign_SCR.mis" has already been altered by the "GWX - Merged Campaign" mod.
"de_menu.txt" has already been altered by the "GWX_DFa-Flag&Pens_2010" mod.
"de_menu.txt" has already been altered by the "GWX3 - VM Plotting Mod 2 (hard)" mod.
"de_menu.txt" has already been altered by the "Hitman_Beta_GUI_GWX3_1.0" mod.
"en_menu.txt" has already been altered by the "GWX_DFa-Flag&Pens_2010" mod.
"en_menu.txt" has already been altered by the "GWX3 - VM Plotting Mod 2 (hard)" mod.

but as i have already copied and updated the en_menu.txt, de_menu.txt and Campaign_SCR.mis with the Supplement to V16A3 mod i would not have thought this would be a problem.

The game is trying to generate reports, for example for the oxygen i just get

CE:

with no message, and for the Bdu reports, i receive a message from them but with no content.

Its really bugging me as it appears to be not implementing the new messages in the en_menu.txt and de_menu.txt for some reason, even though they are in place.

I am also using SH3Cmdr to run the game.

any help appreciated

regards

slipper

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by slipper

and for the Bdu reports, i receive a message from them but with no content.
slipper

Got the same situation. I "posted" it here but I think it was lost in the thread.

"Got two situation to report:
1: When sending a patrol report, the reply come back blank. Just "From: BDU, To U-297" but to message to read. Got that 2 times. Since I have WB's Mid-Patrol Radio Orders mod in sh3 commander, I'm thinking that it may some conflit with this but only after I finish my patrol I can disable the mod and see.

2: I lost the sounds of "new message received" when geting one. Can be because of the fixes for SH3?"

[h.sie]

@slipper: Things are very simple: If you receive empty messages, the new messages required for the fixes, didn't find their way into your sh3-installation.

Since it works well for many people (who installed it correctly), it seems that you did something wrong during the installation process.

EDIT: Please make a test without Sh3Cmdr. Maybe it overwrites the messages???

I apologize that at the moment I cannot offer an easy installation process that everyone can handle.


@Rhodes:

Sorry, it seems I missed you earlier post!

1) Yes, try that out. Make a test without SH3CMdr.

2) Maybe related with the "War news mod"? Try again with "War news" disabled.

[slipper]

Hsie

Thanks for that, it is indeed Sh3Cmdr that is causing a problem. Have not had time to test fully, but all appears to be fine, many thanks for that.

The strange thing is that in all my Sh3Cmdr folder i cannot find anything that appears to affect the en_menu.txt or de_menu.txt, is anyone else using SH3Cmdr with this fix without a problem? would be interested to hear what settings they have, will disable war reports and try again.

A real shame as SH3cmdr is a must have mod for me aswell.

regards

slipper

[h.sie]

@slipper: Good to know. This problem can surely be solved by using correct / adapted configuration files for Sh3-Cmdr - but this is out of the area of my expertise.

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by slipper

Hsie

Thanks for that, it is indeed Sh3Cmdr that is causing a problem. Have not had time to test fully, but all appears to be fine, many thanks for that.

The strange thing is that in all my Sh3Cmdr folder i cannot find anything that appears to affect the en_menu.txt or de_menu.txt, is anyone else using SH3Cmdr with this fix without a problem? would be interested to hear what settings they have, will disable war reports and try again.

A real shame as SH3cmdr is a must have mod for me aswell.

regards

slipper

using SH3_Commander with no problem

career oprtions set to ON

simulate a realisc career length
simulate realistic crew transfers
randomize number of days spent in base
use real ship names in patrol logs
randomize gramophone tracks

[andqui]

Originally Posted by h.sie

No failure to launch torpedo. But functional failure. There were a lot during the early years of war.

See here (unfortunately in german):

http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/krieg/boote_ohne_waffe.html

- premature detonations
- depth maintaining problems
- no explosion on impact

Doenitz wrote in his war diary, that the Uboats were quasi without weapons (in the early time of war)

For a while, rudewarrior and I have been working on a mod that gives the uboat captain an accurate set of standing orders for each date in the was, such as where and when one can attack neutrals. There were many standing orders dealing with how to make the problematic torpedoes more reliable, especially early in the war. As for now, many of these orders are for immersion only, and the only thing we really can do is use LGN's torpedo depth mod to randomize the torpedo depth error at the start of the game, dependent on the date.

If a hardcode fix that would fix this is in the works, we have data as to what types of torpedo failures should occur. Maybe some collaboration would we possible? What are you able to code for? Here are some examples of what would be nice to simulate (these are just going by memory, there are definetely more, like impact fuse failures):

1. All german torpedoes have depth problems up until around May 1940, and from then until May 1942 about half of the torpedoes should run deeper than set
2. Magnetic fusing is almost useless up until around December 1942, due to both premature explosions and failures to detonate at all. There already are prematures in the game, but they don't occur often enough at all
3. Around Norway magnetic torpedoes should be completely useless and regularly premature or fail to explode until Dec 1942

These are the type of things we are seeking to add in the game- do you think that it is possible? I don't have the data in front of me now, so I'm going by memory on the above examples, but some failures are location dependent, some failures are dependent on the type of torpedo, some failures are date-dependent, and some are dependent on all three. If you think this is possible to code, we can give you more data.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by h.sie

2) Maybe related with the "War news mod"? Try again with "War news" disabled.

I do not use that mod! I will try to play today if I have some time and see what I get about the messages.

[h.sie]

@andqui: Thanks for your offer and the information.

I am able to:

- Simulate random torpedo failures by randomly setting the torpedo depth to 25m - depending on time and windspeed. This is the same principle as LGN1's mod does, but more flexible.

Maybe, I am also able to:

- Simulate random torpedo failures (set depth = 25m) depending on torpedo type.

What surely won't be possible:

- Trigger a premature detonation of a torpedo.

That means: I don't plan to model all possible failures (premature explosion, no explosion, depth error) in detail. Instead, I'll use only one type of failure to represent all possible failures. Most important is the effect on gameplay and tonnage.

I am personally only interested to program a coarse model of torpedo failures, but not every detail (at June, 17th 1941 in the South of Norway there were 2 prematures and 1 depth problem, but at June, 18th........)

LGN1 currently researches failure rate depending on year, but he'll surely be interested in your data.

[LGN1]

Hi,

as I've already mentioned in Stiebler's thread, I don't think it's a good idea to model all the different failure types. Doing so would require a lot of work and would also be, in some sense, useless. It would be useless because you cannot mod the commander's ignorance of the failure's root back in WW2.

For instance, today we know that the torpedoes ran deeper than set. If you know this you simply set your torpedo as close to the surface as possible in SH3 and (in most cases) your problem is solved. The same holds for the influence of the impact angle. We know that if it is too large we will have a dud. Therefore, we only launch torpedoes which will have an impact angle close to 90°. And since we know that the premature detonation probability in SH3 increases with the range, we try to get as close as possible. As a consequence, we have hardly any torpedo failures in SH3.

In order to change this very unrealistic situation, I think it's enough if a torpedo does not work with a certain probability depending on the date (no matter what the player does). This can be easily simulated by setting the depth to, let's say 20m.

The big question is how the probability should be chosen. Since players' opinions (and preferences ) probably vary a lot (and this issue also has a large impact on the game-play) it's good if we can discuss the probability before any work is done. Here is my suggestion:

September 1939 - April 1940: p=25%
(the failure rate from November '39 to March '40 was 26%. See page 83 in the document posted here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...17607&langid=1)

April 1940 - June 1940: p=35% (or 25% )
(the failure rate during the invasion of Norway was considered higher than before. However, opinions vary whether this is really true.)

June 1940 - June 1942: p=10%
(maybe (if possible and depending how hard to implement) with an additional probability that the torpedo runs 1-3m deeper than set).

June 1942 - : p=0%

I would not take the u-boat's position and the sea state into account.

It would be great if others could also make suggestions!

Cheers, LGN1