Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE - Page 129

h.sie · 08-06-11, 10:40 AM

@SokoloW:

Have you 4GB patch applied?
Did you try V15G2? It supports 5 versions of sh3.exe.

If that still doesn't work, send me your sh3.exe via PM, and I'll look into that file

08-06-11, 12:06 PM

didnt applied that patch, used V15G2

h.sie · 08-09-11, 02:41 PM

I need some help from people with historical knowledge, and I'd like to know the following:

1) In what areas and times did uboat wolfpack action occur? I want to work with 3 levels of probability: high probability, medium and low probability. I need to describe the probability dependence on location and time p(x,y,t) in a very simple way.

2) Did wolfpack attacks predominantly occur during the night? (I guess, but I don't know for sure).

I'm thankful to everybody who wants to help, but please be aware that only FACTS can help, but not assumptions.

h.sie

Magic1111 · 08-09-11, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

I need some help from people with historical knowledge, and I'd like to know the following:

1) In what areas and times did uboat wolfpack action occur? I want to work with 3 levels of probability: high probability, medium and low probability. I need to describe the probability dependence on location and time p(x,y,t) in a very simple way.

2) Did wolfpack attacks predominantly occur during the night? (I guess, but I don't know for sure).

I'm thankful to everybody who wants to help, but please be aware that only FACTS can help, but not assumptions.

h.sie

Hi !

Maybe this help you:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudeltaktik

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Boot-..._Dezember_1940

Zweite Phase: Januar 1941 bis Dezember 1941
...
Ab dem Sommer 1941 wurde verstärkt auf die Rudeltaktik gesetzt, wobei U-Boote als „Wolfsrudel“ Konvois orteten und koordiniert angriffen. Die oft zahlenmäßig unterlegenen Eskorten versuchten gewöhnlich, das erste geortete U-Boot vom Geleit abzudrängen, was den übrigen Rudelmitgliedern Gelegenheit zum Angriff auf die Handelsschiffe gab.
...

Best regards,
Magic

Wolfstriked · 08-13-11, 04:25 PM

Found this while looking for periscope FOV taken from this webpage.It says that vibration of the scopes was not that bad even at 7kts but one Commanding Officer said he did experience some but at 7kts.I will turn off this in the options for my personal game.Just posting this in case some are interested.

\http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

Only the attack periscope can be used at Schnorkel depth in Type VII C boats as the forward air observation periscope is too short (12.2 m. = 40 ft.). The Commanding Officer of U 971 had no difficulty with periscope vibration at any speed or in any condition of sea, but there was an occasional slight shuddering with the movement of waves.

The Commanding Officer of U 672 had experienced periscope vibration sufficient to cause some blurring when at 7 knotson motors. The attack periscope has two powers - 1.5 and 6 - giving a field of view from +30° to -10°. The line of sight cannot be elevated. Standard practice was to sweep once on magnification 1.5, and then twice on magnification 6. The Schnorkel exhaust only produces a very small blind spot and sometimes none at all. The attack periscope can be raised 20 cm. higher than the top of the Schnorkel.

h.sie · 08-14-11, 05:08 AM

@Magic111, Wolfstriked: Thanks for your input.

Wolfstriked, if I understood your post correctly, one of the commanders had problems with periscope vibrations at 7knots, the other didn't have problems at all. This directly shows how difficult it is to say what is realistic and what is not realistic and to program accordingly.

I would like to know what the other 500(?) UBoat commanders said about peri vibrations.

But I am flexible in this point: I could raise the speed where vibrations occur, but for that I need more reliable historical information. If there is no more historical data, we could make a poll/discussion in order to find a community consensus.

h.sie · 08-14-11, 06:08 AM

After a long period of silence I want to give a first report about my current work together with LGN1:

We have not finished yet and there is still some program work to do, but I'm slightly optimistic now that we can have some kind of wolfpack action and BDU interaction in sh3 in the future. It will not be perfect - only a compromise is possible:

After having discovered a convoy, you have to send a contact report to BDU. Depending on the time period (late war, early war) and the location (atlantic, pacific) and some random factors, the Fix calculates a chance that other UBoats are available to help you.

If no boats are available, the BDU answers that you have to do the attack alone. Good luck!

If other boats are available, BDU orders to shadow the convoy and send contact reports EVERY HOUR (according to the UBoot commanders handbook, the contact holder has to send "Peilsignale" every hour).

Your contact reports no more contain the exact course of the convoy calculated by sh3 engine. Instead, YOU have to measure the convoys course by yourself and adjust it in a TDC Dial. That value is sent together with the contact report and (sometimes but not always) influences the chance, that the other boats will be able to find the convoy.

(According to my research, wolfpack actions were chaotic and not organized well. So I programmed a lot of randomness. Also, some BDU responses will get lost. Times in BDU orders will be inaccurate. Some of your course measurements will affect the game behaviour, others not).

The time between your contact reports influences the chance that the other boats find the convoy. If you only send every 3 hours, the chance raises that the other Subs won't find the convoy. If that situation occurs, the BDU orders to attack alone. Good luck!

If, under certain circumstances, the other Uboats managed to find the convoy, the BDU waits until environment conditions are well (dark night? Fog? I don't know exactly ATM). Then, he orders to attack in X hours. But this X also is an inaccurate time, so maybe the other Boats start to attack a little bit earlier. It is also possible, that nothing happens at all. Maybe the other Uboats have been sunk? So there will be a lot of uncertainness - as in real life.

Since I still wasn't able to reengineer the AI routines in sh3, we still use a -modified- version of Sergbutos AI-Subs. So I fear the convoy battle itself won't look very realistic IF you follow it with the external cam (what also isn't realistic), because the escorts (sometimes) shoot at the AI-Subs with their deck guns. So my suggestion is simple: Don't use the external cam - real kaleuns also didn't use it. But the AI-Subs will do their job:

* deflect/sink some convoy escorts so that you have a good chance for your own attack.

* sink some merchants so that it really looks like a battle when looking through the periscope.

* we are no more alone on the ocean.

I played a mission yesterday with an early alpha version, and as I saw all these burning and sinking merchants in the dark night, the searchlights and distress signal rockets, through the periscope, I remembered the film "Das Boot", and I must admit that I was satisfied for some seconds (knowing this is only a game and nobody really died).

h.sie

fitzcarraldo · 08-14-11, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

After a long period of silence I want to give a first report about my current work together with LGN1:

We have not finished yet and there is still some program work to do, but I'm slightly optimistic now that we can have some kind of wolfpack action and BDU interaction in sh3 in the future. It will not be perfect - only a compromise is possible:

After having discovered a convoy, you have to send a contact report to BDU. Depending on the time period (late war, early war) and the location (atlantic, pacific) and some random factors, the Fix calculates a chance that other UBoats are available to help you.

If no boats are available, the BDU answers that you have to do the attack alone. Good luck!

If other boats are available, BDU orders to shadow the convoy and send contact reports EVERY HOUR (according to the UBoot commanders handbook, the contact holder has to send "Peilsignale" every hour).

Your contact reports no more contain the exact course of the convoy calculated by sh3 engine. Instead, YOU have to measure the convoys course by yourself and adjust it in a TDC Dial. That value is sent together with the contact report and (sometimes but not always) influences the chance, that the other boats will be able to find the convoy.

(According to my research, wolfpack actions were chaotic and not organized well. So I programmed a lot of randomness. Also, some BDU responses will get lost. Times in BDU orders will be inaccurate. Some of your course measurements will affect the game behaviour, others not).

The time between your contact reports influences the chance that the other boats find the convoy. If you only send every 3 hours, the chance raises that the other Subs won't find the convoy. If that situation occurs, the BDU orders to attack alone. Good luck!

If, under certain circumstances, the other Uboats managed to find the convoy, the BDU waits until environment conditions are well (dark night? Fog? I don't know exactly ATM). Then, he orders to attack in X hours. But this X also is an inaccurate time, so maybe the other Boats start to attack a little bit earlier. It is also possible, that nothing happens at all. Maybe the other Uboats have been sunk? So there will be a lot of uncertainness - as in real life.

Since I still wasn't able to reengineer the AI routines in sh3, we still use a -modified- version of Sergbutos AI-Subs. So I fear the convoy battle itself won't look very realistic IF you follow it with the external cam (what also isn't realistic), because the escorts (sometimes) shoot at the AI-Subs with their deck guns. So my suggestion is simple: Don't use the external cam - real kaleuns also didn't use it. But the AI-Subs will do their job:

* deflect/sink some convoy escorts so that you have a good chance for your own attack.

* sink some merchants so that it really looks like a battle when looking through the periscope.

* we are no more alone on the ocean.

I played a mission yesterday with an early alpha version, and as I saw all these burning and sinking merchants in the dark night, the searchlights and distress signal rockets, through the periscope, I remembered the film "Das Boot", and I must admit that I was satisfied for some seconds (knowing this is only a game and nobody really died).

h.sie

Looks fabulous. Waiting this great improvement.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo

SquareSteelBar · 08-14-11, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

...because the escorts (sometimes) shoot at the AI-Subs with their deck guns...

Why do you think that isn't realistic?

h.sie · 08-14-11, 08:21 AM

Oh, SSB, I totally forgot to mention that we also benefit from your work on the AI-Subs (as well as from other peoples help, suggestions........)

To answer your question: They predominantly shoot with their deckgun and sometimes fight them with DC. The opposite would be better I think.

SquareSteelBar · 08-14-11, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

Oh, SSB, I totally forgot to mention that we also benefit from your work on the AI-Subs...

Never mind...

urfisch · 08-14-11, 11:41 AM

THIS sounds damn great h.sie!!! Really great...cant wait to test this nice and revolutionary mod.

This again prooves: Wheres faith and passion, theres always a way to reach your targets.

Great. Thank you all who worked on this mod and spent your time for this.

SquareSteelBar · 08-14-11, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

...To answer your question: They predominantly shoot with their deckgun and sometimes fight them with DC. The opposite would be better I think.

That's why the escorts see the invisible [for the player] gun hovering above the sub.
Although I think this is nearly realistic: they detect the risen periscope and start to shoot with their deck guns to destroy it whilst they try to approximate to the sub [if they ever manage that] and start ramming and depth charging.

makman94 · 08-14-11, 01:45 PM

the REAL challenge of sh3's moding is exactly here...right in this thread !!!

H.Sie , you are a real 'gift' for this community ,your last efforts are more than the 'expected' ! and all these without having in your hands a tool that TDW will give you in short time (its called .dll injector and i believe-hope that in your magic hands will become very usefull).
congratulations to all involved to this thread (LGN1 is a real 'diamond' partner) ,
keep at it guys ...whenever you need a tester count me in !

hex editing...

all the best to future

FIREWALL · 08-14-11, 01:56 PM

Hi h.sie

I have Version: V15G1 installed and works GREAT.

My problem is downloading your latest Version: V15G2 form your MediaFire site.

When I click "download" it wants me to install MediaFire toolbar Download Manager and Register.

Is there some kind of workaround I couldn't find or could it be uploaded somewhere else.

I really want this latest Version.

The V15G1 I have installed now works Fantastic but, I want to keep up with latest Version to keep up with improvements.

Thank You whether you can do it or not.

08-06-11, 10:40 AM	#1921
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@SokoloW: Have you 4GB patch applied? Did you try V15G2? It supports 5 versions of sh3.exe. If that still doesn't work, send me your sh3.exe via PM, and I'll look into that file __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

08-09-11, 02:41 PM	#1923
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	I need some help from people with historical knowledge, and I'd like to know the following: 1) In what areas and times did uboat wolfpack action occur? I want to work with 3 levels of probability: high probability, medium and low probability. I need to describe the probability dependence on location and time p(x,y,t) in a very simple way. 2) Did wolfpack attacks predominantly occur during the night? (I guess, but I don't know for sure). I'm thankful to everybody who wants to help, but please be aware that only FACTS can help, but not assumptions. h.sie __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

08-14-11, 05:08 AM	#1926
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Magic111, Wolfstriked: Thanks for your input. Wolfstriked, if I understood your post correctly, one of the commanders had problems with periscope vibrations at 7knots, the other didn't have problems at all. This directly shows how difficult it is to say what is realistic and what is not realistic and to program accordingly. I would like to know what the other 500(?) UBoat commanders said about peri vibrations. But I am flexible in this point: I could raise the speed where vibrations occur, but for that I need more reliable historical information. If there is no more historical data, we could make a poll/discussion in order to find a community consensus. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

08-14-11, 06:08 AM	#1927
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	After a long period of silence I want to give a first report about my current work together with LGN1: We have not finished yet and there is still some program work to do, but I'm slightly optimistic now that we can have some kind of wolfpack action and BDU interaction in sh3 in the future. It will not be perfect - only a compromise is possible: After having discovered a convoy, you have to send a contact report to BDU. Depending on the time period (late war, early war) and the location (atlantic, pacific) and some random factors, the Fix calculates a chance that other UBoats are available to help you. If no boats are available, the BDU answers that you have to do the attack alone. Good luck! If other boats are available, BDU orders to shadow the convoy and send contact reports EVERY HOUR (according to the UBoot commanders handbook, the contact holder has to send "Peilsignale" every hour). Your contact reports no more contain the exact course of the convoy calculated by sh3 engine. Instead, YOU have to measure the convoys course by yourself and adjust it in a TDC Dial. That value is sent together with the contact report and (sometimes but not always) influences the chance, that the other boats will be able to find the convoy. (According to my research, wolfpack actions were chaotic and not organized well. So I programmed a lot of randomness. Also, some BDU responses will get lost. Times in BDU orders will be inaccurate. Some of your course measurements will affect the game behaviour, others not). The time between your contact reports influences the chance that the other boats find the convoy. If you only send every 3 hours, the chance raises that the other Subs won't find the convoy. If that situation occurs, the BDU orders to attack alone. Good luck! If, under certain circumstances, the other Uboats managed to find the convoy, the BDU waits until environment conditions are well (dark night? Fog? I don't know exactly ATM). Then, he orders to attack in X hours. But this X also is an inaccurate time, so maybe the other Boats start to attack a little bit earlier. It is also possible, that nothing happens at all. Maybe the other Uboats have been sunk? So there will be a lot of uncertainness - as in real life. Since I still wasn't able to reengineer the AI routines in sh3, we still use a -modified- version of Sergbutos AI-Subs. So I fear the convoy battle itself won't look very realistic IF you follow it with the external cam (what also isn't realistic), because the escorts (sometimes) shoot at the AI-Subs with their deck guns. So my suggestion is simple: Don't use the external cam - real kaleuns also didn't use it. But the AI-Subs will do their job: * deflect/sink some convoy escorts so that you have a good chance for your own attack. * sink some merchants so that it really looks like a battle when looking through the periscope. * we are no more alone on the ocean. I played a mission yesterday with an early alpha version, and as I saw all these burning and sinking merchants in the dark night, the searchlights and distress signal rockets, through the periscope, I remembered the film "Das Boot", and I must admit that I was satisfied for some seconds (knowing this is only a game and nobody really died). h.sie __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie Last edited by h.sie; 08-14-11 at 07:22 AM.

08-14-11, 08:21 AM	#1930
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	Oh, SSB, I totally forgot to mention that we also benefit from your work on the AI-Subs (as well as from other peoples help, suggestions........) To answer your question: They predominantly shoot with their deckgun and sometimes fight them with DC. The opposite would be better I think. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

08-06-11, 12:06 PM	#1922
Sokolov Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	didnt applied that patch, used V15G2

08-13-11, 04:25 PM	#1925
Wolfstriked Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 756 Downloads: 230 Uploads: 0	Found this while looking for periscope FOV taken from this webpage.It says that vibration of the scopes was not that bad even at 7kts but one Commanding Officer said he did experience some but at 7kts.I will turn off this in the options for my personal game.Just posting this in case some are interested. \http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com Only the attack periscope can be used at Schnorkel depth in Type VII C boats as the forward air observation periscope is too short (12.2 m. = 40 ft.). The Commanding Officer of U 971 had no difficulty with periscope vibration at any speed or in any condition of sea, but there was an occasional slight shuddering with the movement of waves. The Commanding Officer of U 672 had experienced periscope vibration sufficient to cause some blurring when at 7 knotson motors. The attack periscope has two powers - 1.5 and 6 - giving a field of view from +30° to -10°. The line of sight cannot be elevated. Standard practice was to sweep once on magnification 1.5, and then twice on magnification 6. The Schnorkel exhaust only produces a very small blind spot and sometimes none at all. The attack periscope can be raised 20 cm. higher than the top of the Schnorkel.

08-14-11, 11:41 AM	#1932
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	THIS sounds damn great h.sie!!! Really great...cant wait to test this nice and revolutionary mod. This again prooves: Wheres faith and passion, theres always a way to reach your targets. Great. Thank you all who worked on this mod and spent your time for this. __________________

08-14-11, 01:45 PM	#1934
makman94 Hellas Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,325 Downloads: 182 Uploads: 7	the REAL challenge of sh3's moding is exactly here...right in this thread !!! H.Sie , you are a real 'gift' for this community ,your last efforts are more than the 'expected' ! and all these without having in your hands a tool that TDW will give you in short time (its called .dll injector and i believe-hope that in your magic hands will become very usefull). congratulations to all involved to this thread (LGN1 is a real 'diamond' partner) , keep at it guys ...whenever you need a tester count me in ! hex editing... all the best to future __________________ Knowledge is the only thing that nobody can ever take from you... Mediafire page:http://www.mediafire.com/folder/da50.../Makman94_Mods

08-14-11, 01:56 PM	#1935
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Hi h.sie I have Version: V15G1 installed and works GREAT. My problem is downloading your latest Version: V15G2 form your MediaFire site. When I click "download" it wants me to install MediaFire toolbar Download Manager and Register. Is there some kind of workaround I couldn't find or could it be uploaded somewhere else. I really want this latest Version. The V15G1 I have installed now works Fantastic but, I want to keep up with latest Version to keep up with improvements. Thank You whether you can do it or not. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???