UK Politics Thread

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, hard Irish-Irish border.
Plus a full cancellation/invaldiation of the whole Brexit treaty, becasue the EU sees the NI protocol as integrated part of Brexit treaty. "Either all, or nothing at all."

Formally, the UK is to exclusively blame over this. They could and should have know what they signed.

The whole Ireland issue cannot logically, resonably be solved. Its beyond a logical, reasonable solution.

I do remember I saw this problem as the well known Gordian knot.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

I watched a documentary a few nights ago which explained the changes since Brexit in paperwork requirements imposed by the EU on exporting from the UK and in some instances a previous requirement of one or two pages has now grown to over two hundred.

Now if the EU continue to play silly buggas and continue to put obstacles in place thinking they are punishing us they are actually playing into Boris hands because the UK resolve is strengthening in this area.

It is widely believed Boris only agreed to the NI protocol to get Brexit over the line which is essentially why he was elected (look at what happened to Theresa May by direct comparison)

The threat of the current NI protocol is a direct threat to the whole NI peace agreement so the EU should consider carefully what its position is.

Next moves if the EU continue to refuse to re-negotiate will probably mean 1) invoking Article 16 2) rip up the treaty paying nothing more in a divorce settlement 3) go to WTO terms.

4) (shudder it should ever come to this) a so called hard border in Ireland and all that chaos it would potentially bring about....who's going to build it? the French? Italians? Germans?

I'm absolutely certain of one thing and that is the fact it won't be the unelected bureaucrat clowns from Brussels who are doing their very best to create this impasse.

When will that political failure of a woman who even makes Jean-Claude Juncker look interesting and intelligent come to her senses and realise there is a growing feeling of unease amongst EU member states therefore putting her own house in order first must surely be the real priority here.

Boris isn't my cup of tea but he turned a Parliamentary deficit (May excelled in doing that) into a sizeable majority on the back of a promise to get Brexit sorted and that he did. Whether you blame the press on whichever side or the bankers or whoever else, the resultant outcome is and was the same.

The eyes of the world look on as both sides jockey for their own preferred outcomes and irregardless of how it pans out there will inevitably be much damage done to both sides.

So on it goes.

[Skybird]

While I agree on the backgroud intentions and motives, I nevertheless must point out the fact that the UK signed a treaty that said this, and said not that. Pacta sund servanda. The inner contradictions were crystalcear and known since years. If the UK now decides that it now wants to break the treaty it has just signed (and it plays absolutely no role WHY it has signed it, what counts only is what is written in it by the letter), then it must accept to be the one who breaks it. Its not the EU this time.

Also, since you asked for it, when the Troubles still were there, who suffered from it and fought it and paid for it - continental Europe and the EEU, or the UK and the Irish? The material and humane mess will be your shares, not "ours". "We" are practically unaffected by it.

Johnson may have broken up a stalled situation, as you described, but he did not make the contradictions in it go away, he only gave them another format. They are still there. As I said, the issue of NI is impossible to solve by reason and logic. Either it is left as it is, or one has to accept to change it by force - and then by getting very dirty hands. This will not turn out nice and tidy - that is not possible.

One side will see a major diplomatic defeat here, and I think it will be the UK, either by accepting the status quo and the NI protocol, or by falling back to WTO rules and then being seen by the eyes of the world as the someone who signs treaties only to break them already in the very first year. Means: treaties with the UK are not worth the paper they are printed on. Thats the lesson many states will take from it.

No matter what is being done, this can only turn nasty and ugly. But currently I must say I absolutely would prefer to shop in a German, French, Danish, Austrian or Dutch supermarket instead of a British one.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No matter what is being done, this can only turn nasty and ugly.

That doesn't sound expectant at all. Isn't there any solution to this
N.I. problem ?

I thought either a divorce from UK and become fully independent or become part of Ireland would solve it.

Markus

[Skybird]

Ask the Northern Irish.

And London will be pleased as well... I mean it means the desintegration of the United Kingdom. If NI leaves, then Scotland will be next, probably also Wales. And that is it then with the "united" and "kingdom". Then it is only England, and England alone.


The DUP in NI would prefer to stay with the UK. Also a majority of the population, I think.


They ha da referendum early in the 70s, 72 or 73. As far as I recall the Catholics boycotted it almost compeltley, so only 6 in 10 voted. But of these, almost all voted for the UK, 98 or 99%. So even if the Cathllcis would have voted for goping toegtehjr with the RoI, the referebndum woudl have failed.


However, that is almost two generations ago. Half a century. And in the mists of the national historic records looms this ugly beast named religion.

[Skybird]

The Lugano Convention. Another major complication that the EU can and does use to press the UK.

I was not aware of this.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/28/b...cmd/index.html

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

This action packed series you post here in our UK Politics Thread, will it be shown on Netflix. How many seasons are there and how many episode ?

If it's a great action series I'll take a look at it when it comes to Netflix.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Wish I knew what that is supposed to mean.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Wish I knew what that is supposed to mean.

Sorry it was my attempt trying to be funny about these video clip you post now and then.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Sorry it was my attempt trying to be funny about these video clip you post now and then.

Markus

I suspected as much but didn't want to respond without an element of certainty.

[Jimbuna]

[Cyborg322]

Comment repackaged as an enviro friendly move by Thatcher by a Government who a few years ago had Zero road tax for diesels Another slur and backstab for people of Lancashire Yorkshire and the North East in particular. "Levelling up" is more like beating down

[CheckSix]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...treaties with the UK are not worth the paper they are printed on. Thats the lesson many states will take from it.

Because the EU never break agreements do they?
For years the EU has ignored WTO rulings on GMOs and hormone treated beef. The Court of Justice of the European Union has, at least twice, ruled that the EU does not have to follow international law, once in the context of WTO law (Portugal v Council) and once (the Kadi-Barakaat case) actually ruling that the EU should ignore the UN Charter, the highest order of international law, if it conflicts with the EU’s internal structures.

Neither does the EU abide by its own internal treaty obligations. When France or Germany broke treaty commitments in terms of deficits and debt levels, nothing happened. When Poland and Hungary undermine the very rule of law within the EU, there is much talk and zero action. Whether the European Central Bank is currently operating within the constraints of the treaties is up for debate.

And the EU is not alone. China repeatedly breaks international law, in the South China Sea, in its treatment of Uyghurs, in not abiding by WTO rules, in Hong Kong, etc., etc., etc. Yet the EU expends great energy securing an EU-China trade deal.

Israel has for years lived in contravention of international law with its West Bank settlements. Yet the EU carries on normal relations with Israel.

And on it goes.

On that note, here are the legal reasons the EU has already broken its own treaty with the UK :
An essential condition of participating in the Withdrawal Agreement (WA) was to secure a free trade agreement (FTA);
The EU has been acting in breach of a material term of the WA by denying the UK an FTA;
The EU has attempted to impose wholly unreasonable restrictions on the UK which no other country would accept;
The treaty was therefore entered into by the UK on a false premise from the EU;
The EU has breached its legal obligation to act in good faith;
The WA breaks the terms of the Good Friday Agreement;
The WA is in breach of the ECHR principle of the right to vote;
The WA is in breach of the UN Charter's principle of “self-determination”, its most important tenet;
Therefore the UK Government has no option but to supersede and revoke this deeply flawed, obstructive withdrawal agreement.

[Jimbuna]

A British man has been arrested in Germany on suspicion of spying for Russia.

German federal prosecutors said the man - named only as David S - worked at the British embassy in Berlin.

He allegedly passed documents to Russian intelligence "at least once" in exchange for an "unknown amount" of money.

He was arrested in Potsdam outside Berlin on Tuesday and his home and workplace have been searched.

A spokesman for Germany's foreign ministry quoted by AFP news agency said Berlin was taking the case "very seriously", and said spying by "a close alliance partner on German soil is unacceptable".

The arrest was the result of a joint UK-German investigation, the statement read.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58170872