Wuhan virus 2020

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MaDef

LOL.,, If "They" can't dazzle "You" with brilliance, "They" baffle "You" with bull****. Myself, I'm still trying to understand the brouhaha over an infection with a >2% overall mortality rate.

After such a long time of undisguised obviousness, such stupid comments are just embarrassing.

[mapuc]

A story from Denmark. At a press meeting the leader of SSI state serum institute, said a majority at the hospital is non vaccinated it is therefore important to get the vaccine.

A Danish newspaper Politiken made an investigation and found that it in fact was the other way around 2/3 af people in the hospital was people who either have received first, second or third jab.

Furthermore they discovered that a majority of those who got their second jab had been given this more than 5-6 month ago. Which indicate clearly that the vaccine is only effective some month after and with this new Omicron the vaccine isn't that effective.

Markus

[Skybird]

Polls they did all over Germany showed that nurses in German hospitals in early october were vaccinated by over 90%, doctors by over 94%.



In early December, employers of staff in German caretaking homes for elder people reported vaccination rates between 90 and 95%.

[mapuc]

This Omicron is spreading wildly here in Denmark.

One of the places where this spreading happens is in the queue where people with symptoms or no symptoms stand less than 2 meters apart. Even with facemask the spreading of Corona and Omicron happens in these queue.

Second place is in our stores.
Third at the hospital.

Off that I'm convinced.

Markus

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by MaDef

LOL.,, If "They" can't dazzle "You" with brilliance, "They" baffle "You" with bull****. Myself, I'm still trying to understand the brouhaha over an infection with a >2% overall mortality rate.

Si tacuisses, philosophus manisses.


For those who haven't gone full hillbilly and are still willing to listen and understand:


Vaccination rate for Germans aged 60 and above: 86.9%
ITS-Rate for Germans aged 60 and above: 41.1% (and not 43%)

(Both numbers taken from the RKI, thanks to Skybird for the links).


To calculate the statistical likelyhood you simply have to divide the ratio of vaccinated/unvaccinated people on ITS (41.1/58.9) by the ratio of vaccinated people to unvaccinated in the ntire population (86.9/13.1)
This equals 0.1052, which means that -taking the vaccination rate into account- for every unvaccinated person there are 0.1052 vaccinated people on ITS. If you want the value based on one vaccinated person you calculate 1/0.1052 = 9.5065. This means that it's about 9.5 times as likely to end on ITS as an unvaccinated person (60 years and above) compared to a vaccinated person (same age group).

That's for the entire group aged 60+, as I have said before the ratio is more like 1:4 for people 80+ and 1:10 (or even more) for people 60-69.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[August]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

And again: breakthroughs are to be expected. Vaccines aren't an impenetrable defense, and nobody who understands how vaccines work would claim they were.

Yeah well some vaccines are more impenetrable than others (ever hear of a Smallpox breakthrough infection?) and these covid vaccines are definitely on the extreme low end of the effectiveness scale.

[Jimbuna]

The UK's coronavirus alert level has been raised to level four due to the spread of Omicron, the UK's chief medical officers have said.

The last time the UK was at level four was in May.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is due to make a televised statement on Covid at 20:00 GMT on Sunday.

He is expected to provide an update on the booster programme. The BBC understands there will not be any new restrictions imposed.

On Sunday evening, the chief medical officers for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland said they were recommending the coronavirus alert level is raised from level three to level four, which signifies Covid is spreading fast.

Risk levels are measured by a five-level, colour-coded alert system. Level four means a high or rising level of transmission.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59629916

[Rockstar]

What does Variant Of Concern mean?

Possible attributes of a variant of concern:

In addition to the possible attributes of a variant of interest


1. Evidence of impact on diagnostics, treatments, or vaccines
Widespread interference with diagnostic test targets.

SEE #6

2. Evidence of substantially decreased susceptibility to one or more class of therapies

SEE #6

3. Evidence of significantly decreased neutralization by antibodies generated during previous infection or vaccination

SEE #6


4. Evidence of reduced vaccine-induced protection from severe disease

SEE #6


5. Evidence of increased transmissibility.

SEE #6


#6 Evidence of increased disease severity. MILD TO NO SYMPTOMS

[mapuc]

A statement made by myself

Though lesser people get vaccinated though weaker the virus get.
Though more people get vaccinated though tougher the virus get.

This is based on all I have read about the virus, mutation a.s.o.

Since I'm not an expert on this subject I most likely is wrong.

Markus

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by August

Yeah well some vaccines are more impenetrable than others (ever hear of a Smallpox breakthrough infection?)

As a matter of fact there have been numerous Smallpox breakthroughs - in the past, that is, the disease has been eradicated sopme decades ago.

and these covid vaccines are definitely on the extreme low end of the effectiveness scale.

Are they? Then go ahead and prove your claim. I have yet to see a reliable source for that claim, and it better be a good one because the sources supporting a relatively high effectiveness are not only numerous but come from a variety of reliable sources.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by mapuc

A statement made by myself

Though lesser people get vaccinated though weaker the virus get.
Though more people get vaccinated though tougher the virus get.

This is based on all I have read about the virus, mutation a.s.o.

Since I'm not an expert on this subject I most likely is wrong.

Markus

What is meant by "weak" and "tough"? A virus is dangerous when it is highly contagious but only moderately deadly. If it is too deadly it will kill the infected person too quickly and thus reduces the chance of spreading itself. If it is less contagious it is much easier to control, isolate and exterminate the virus.


About your statements: At lower vaccination rates more variants have the ability to overcome the effects of vaccination, because weaker variants will still find hosts to infect. That, however, has no effect on the tougher mutations. Even worse: with more hosts the chances of creating a tougher mutation increases (more hosts --> more replications of the virus --> more mutations --> higher chance).
Important to remember: mutations are random. A virus doesn't mutate willingly with a certain goal in mind. A mutation prevails if it is better suited to the environment than another mutation.

Vaccinations make the environment the virus exists in more hostile. As for Covid: the current vaccinations basically destroyed the environment the alpha variant can exist in, so we practically got rid of the alpha variant. Delta is a little more resilient, but can still be fought effectively with the current vaccines. Omikron - well, we'll see. But these are just three variants of the virus, out of more than 56,000 that have been identified since the outbreak.

[mapuc]

^ I stand corrected Sir and thank you for the lesson.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Are they? Then go ahead and prove your claim. I have yet to see a reliable source for that claim, and it better be a good one because the sources supporting a relatively high effectiveness are not only numerous but come from a variety of reliable sources.

You first. I'm basing my statement on the rather obvious fact that covid vaccines don't prevent people from catching the disease, transmitting it to others, getting sick from it or does it keep them from dying from it in significant numbers. Doesn't sound like a very effective vaccine to me but maybe you can post some government bullcrap figures to prove otherwise. Go ahead.

As a matter of fact there have been numerous Smallpox breakthroughs - in the past, that is, the disease has been eradicated sopme decades ago.

And I hope you don't have to go back to colonial days to to find your examples of smallpox vaccine failure because giving people a hopefully small but unmeasured dose of a live virus is not at all the same as giving them a vaccine. It's playing russian roulette with their lives. I'm not judging them for doing so in their situation but facts are facts.