[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I also start to think about returning to an earlier version. I thik there is already to much thinks added to the mod and that makes it to not work as intended.

Just tested the latest version on the HanSolo's funnel test mission where is a carrier with 4 escorts. The carrier speed drooped from 17knts to 1 in the second the first torpedo hit. I was very disappointed to see that happens. Also the escort were just circling around for a while then they left the crime scene except one that seemed to be stuck in a looping mode.. she was just circling next the carrier and not responded to any other threat, not even when I maxed the engines and got back at scope depth.

The old versions were just perfect. Between 15 and 17 were released the finest versions, any chance to make them available again? :P

I need to know what you all think is exactly wrong with the current version? What does the AI not do? What did they do before that they don't do now?
The one escort above that was just circling next to the carrier sounds like it was assigned the role guard convoy. Sounds like it was doing what it should.
Where can I find this test mission you used? I'd like to test with it to see if I notice any bugs.
As far as the carrier speed decreasing, was the speed decrease instantaneous? Have you tried the mission without IRAI to see if the carrier's speed decreases as fast?
As far as the escorts that were just circling around for awhile and then left the crime scene, what's wrong with that? That tells me you attacked the carrier from periscope depth undetected. You remained undetected by the escorts and they immediately started searching for you after the carrier was hit. They searched their maximum allowed time and didn't find you so they continued on following waypoints. Seems like it's working just fine here.
So I am a little confused as to what's so wrong with the current version

EDIT:

looking into speed issue. Let's assume that the carrier is a veteran. It's crew state before being torpedoed would be:

Ship:SetThrottleRatio(0.625 + (0.1 * (1 - Ship:GetDamage())));

so it has an available throttle ratio of max 0.725

once torpedoed it more than likely switched to crew state damage control:

Ship:SetThrottleRatio(0.475 + (0.1 * (1 - Ship:GetDamage())));

so it has an available throttle ratio of max 0.575

if it switched to alert state while in damage control state also:

Ship:SetThrottleRatio(0.675 + (0.1 * (1 - Ship:GetDamage())));

so it has an available throttle ratio of max 0.775

the maximum change in available throttle ratio (worst case) would've been 0.725 - 0.475 = 0.25. That equates to a max 25% change in speed. So the carrier slowing to 1 knot is not caused by the mod that I can see.

EDIT2:

it could be that the carrier sustained enough damage to put them into the abandon ship crew state. If so, their available throttle ratio would be 0 and thus speed would 0. Maybe this is the underlying problem. It would definitely cause a VERY rapid decrease in speed. Maybe what should be done is available throttle ratio left at some value but speed is forced to 0 thus allowing the vessel to 'cruise' to a stop......

EDIT3:

I'm going to try something for the speed of the vessels relating to damage. It's going to be purely experimental and I'll post a link to it here when it's ready.

[laribe]

I like the way all ships react but I think it is that the escorts do not press the attack! They drop a few DCs then just keep criss crossing as though they have used all their ammo supply.
Keep up the good work

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by laribe

I like the way all ships react but I think it is that the escorts do not press the attack! They drop a few DCs then just keep criss crossing as though they have used all their ammo supply.
Keep up the good work

can you be more specific? Is this behavior from a convoy or an HK group or a single unit? If from a convoy, is the convoy leader a Merchant or Warship (escort or battleship)?

[laribe]

I will try from a laymans view. In a convoy the escort stays with the convoy and does not attempt any counter moves, The HK seem to aquire a contact, moves into position drops DCs on first run then re-run, pinging as they go, but rarely drop any further charges.
I know the object is to frustrate the attack and keep the boat down, so they should be dropping a lot more DCs if in contact.
I hope this helps troubleshoot not great with words

This was using historic missions wolfpack and military convoy

[Zedi]

I try to get into more details this time. The mission I was talkin about is packed into the Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78, I'm a bit surprised you don't use that mod, it greatly improves the funnel smokes

What happened was this: gathered fast the target data and shot a salvo. 3 from 4 torpedo hit the carrier and damaged it very bad, but not sunk the ship. So I suppose the ship entered into the abandoned state. In about 2 second the ship lost his speed from 17 to 1 knots. I say 1knt because she was still moving, but extremely slow.

The escorts: On hit, one of them (the one that left behind later) started to circle next to the carrier. Not searching, but circling.. just cruising in an endless loop. The other 3 started to search, one of them going with "extrem speed" backwards for a while. None of them left the carrier, they were searching around the ship. After 10 minutes or so, they regrouped and left the scene continuing their cruise while the carrier was still floating and burning. The 4th escort was left behind running in circle next to the carrier.

Me: After the salvo I ordered a deep dive on silent running mode. My target was at 4.7 Km distance from me, so at the impact I was already at 100 m + deep. Because the mission use the 7a type uboat, I got issues keeping the depth under 150m.. so to not crash, I had to gave up on the silent running and go on scope depth using max engine speed. The escort left behind still not detected me, not even when I got at about 2Km close.

Regarding the speed issue on hit, there is no way that a huge carrier will slow down from 17knts to 0 in just few seconds. You can't do that not even with a car on surface Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember that I was reading somewhere that a tanker need around 15-20 minute to completely stop on sea when she is at max speed and with full cargo.

I loved more the older versions where the escorts were really aggressive. I think it was v. 15-17 when they got me first time I play SH5 and when they managed to drop a DC right on top of me shaking badly the sub and few seconds later seeing the death screen That was absolutely awesome, it was when I learned to shot from max distance.. like 10km away.

[BowfinSS287]

ok here is what I've found,been testing AI versions back to .14
I'm using the enhances funnel smoke mission as-well and here is
what i found out....I'm firing from about 3500 meters,the escorts
do not detect me and when i hit the carrier the destroyers follow
the torpedo tracks back to me and start searching. their tactics are
the best I've seen in any version to date,maybe a little too hard but
if you take your time and stay cool, you can survive with a veteran
crew...with this version you might decide not to attack sometimes
the depth charge attacks are long and painful...Das Boot monuments
are plentiful with this version....you will fear destroyers!

p.s.this is where i would look for AI tactics,and bring them forward
maybe easy them down a bit

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.24 released. See post #1 for details

I'm trying to understand how the game interprets unknown contacts. Your sub can be declared an unknown contact sometimes and hopefully this version addresses this issue and allows the escorts to DC you now.

[laribe]

Bowfin
Just did that mission and what i found was after the CV was hit 2 DDs came roaring down, couple of pings, stopped, then dead slow with a couple of DCs . I was at periscope depth all the time.
I noticed the close escort stayed with the CV which was going down by the head.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by laribe

Bowfin
Just did that mission and what i found was after the CV was hit 2 DDs came roaring down, couple of pings, stopped, then dead slow with a couple of DCs . I was at periscope depth all the time.
I noticed the close escort stayed with the CV which was going down by the head.

v0.0.24 should address this issue of them not DCing you when you're an unknown contact and at periscope depth.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

0.0.23 patched game defeated me for the first time. April 3rd, Narvik approach area, allied convoy moving East, destroyer as leader, at least 3 destroyers on port. After I attacked they dropped some "random" DCs but as I submerged and maneuvered immediately after launch they never really found me. But here they got tricky - the convoy moved on and my sonarman (who is totaly deaf) reported no contacts nearby, so I risked an early periscope check. I got pinged and DCd before reaching 20 m, so dived again. Some more DCs were dropped, closer and closer, then I realised I was too deep and my boat is slowly falling down if I don't speed a bit - I suppose that was the main mistake here, as the DCs dropped even closer this time. Finally hull got crushed at more than 200 m depth (as my UI says, we were below crAsh depth...).

So, this was definitely an improvement compared to earlier version I had (North Atlantic 2 convoy battles).

EDIT: Photo documentation found when... seas dried to the bottom:

[BowfinSS287]

still no joy with .24....i think if you could see what happens in the game
it would help you determine what needs to be fixed

if you loaded enhanced funnel smoke mission....found here
http://www.filefront.com/15948455/En...lSmokeSH5.rar/

to score a quick hit on the carrier,follow these steps

1 : set speed to ahead slow
2 : rise scope and look 65 degrees to starboard
3 : set heading to view
4 : fire a salvo.....1 3 4....set speed to medium....spread 10
5 : AOB 66 starboard.....range is around 4024 meters
6 : aim about 10 meters in from the bow
7 : don't forget to set torpedo depth....8 meters should work

now sit back and watch how they react....do it with .14 and
you'll see a big difference...use the type VIIB

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by BowfinSS287

still no joy with .24....i think if you could see what happens in the game
it would help you determine what needs to be fixed

if you loaded enhanced funnel smoke mission....found here
http://www.filefront.com/15948455/En...lSmokeSH5.rar/

to score a quick hit on the carrier,follow these steps

1 : set speed to ahead slow
2 : rise scope and look 65 degrees to starboard
3 : set heading to view
4 : fire a salvo.....1 3 4....set speed to medium....spread 10
5 : AOB 66 starboard.....range is around 4024 meters
6 : aim about 10 meters in from the bow
7 : don't forget to set torpedo depth....8 meters should work

now sit back and watch how they react....do it with .14 and
you'll see a big difference

what I think you're seeing is the assignment of the ships being different. In prior versions (say before .18) the ships were assigned closest to contact. Now they are assigned any - so you may see an escort right in front of you that appears to do nothing but it may be assigned the role guard convoy or something.
I'll have to look into HK groups assignment and see if I can't make it better.

[laribe]

Using 24 in Funnel smoke I missed the carrier, its late, but hit 2 escorts. the remainder followed set course, which in the real world would be right, so no units hunted me.

Using 24 with Military convoy at periscope depth 2 of the RNs finest came on at full tilt pinged a few times and that was it. I got into the convoy at the same depth, with DDs still covering me, sank 1 merchant then sailed with convoy at same depth and had about 5 5DCs dropped in the whole engagement

From what I know, which is not a lot if it was only a suspected contact it was attacked and dont worry about the expense

The KISS method is the best.

[BowfinSS287]

maybe you need to give the guard command more options
like it would circle the intended target ,and then stop and
listen then resume,if it made contact with enemy sub it could
warn the other destroyers,also i think you should look at .14
to see what you did to make them such good hunters,these
destroyers were like bulldogs....very hard to shake lose

[Ragtag]

for the first time i got smacked in the game at 140 meter depth. First time i ever seen depthcharge go this deep. And for the first time i had several torpedoes exploding premature even with torpedo set to impact. 3 of 6 exploded premature. Maybe abit to much?
nonetheless... you are really doing wonders here mate. Simply awesome. Way to go