Severodvinsk leaves Severodvinsk.

ikalugin · 10-09-14, 07:57 AM

Source:
http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/322400.html

Onkel Neal · 10-09-14, 08:23 AM

Dang thats a cool picture. That just became my laptop wallpaper.

ikalugin · 10-09-14, 08:27 AM

Well we are known for making good looking naval vessels.

Jimbuna · 10-09-14, 01:04 PM

Nice looker, hope she's quieter than some of her predecessors.

ikalugin · 10-09-14, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Nice looker, hope she's quieter than some of her predecessors.

The first of the series (the Severodvinsk itself) has older powerplant and other older systems. So while it is an improvement over Akula series, it is not quite revolutionary.

However the follow up boats (project 885M) have the new 4th gen powerplants, partial electric drive (for low speeds) and new electronics equipment.

p.s. by the way, is anyone interested in a short overview of old Soviet 4th generation projects and current Russian 4th/5th generation projects and 3rd generations upgrades?

VirtualVikingX · 10-10-14, 02:52 PM

Yes.

ikalugin · 10-10-14, 05:32 PM

Ok. I will begin with the Soviet projects them.

The first submarine I would discuss is the oldest 4th generation project we had, and probably it is the most interesting one for the Western reader. The reason for this is because it was a fairly unusual submarine type for the Soviets. The project 958 submarine (Afalina class) originated from the Soviet studies on how to protect our then vulnerable boomers, when they were patrolling in NA areas, the areas contested with the US forces.

The idea was to create two destrinct submarine types - an "AWACS" (project 693) submarine with advanced sonar, and the "interceptor" submarines (project 657) which would be vectored onto their targets. With the development of trully long range submarine launched ballistic missiles the patrol routes shifted to the friendly waters and thus the need for such a complex set up dissapeared. The requirement to engage hositly boomers on their home ground did remain, leading to the development of the project 958 submarine.

As you could see it had a large aperture conformal array, as well as large diameter bow spherical array and a long towed array. The armament was fairly conservative - 6 533mm tubes, however this was sufficient for sub hunting.

To keep the submarine survivable it's sonar signature has been substantially reduced, based on the insights gained from project 991. Some of the ideas from it, and project 991 were realised on the a far better known sub - the Shyka-B series (project 971 aka Akula class).

ikalugin · 10-10-14, 05:47 PM

The second post of mine is dedicated to the general line up of the Soviet 4th generation projects.

The smallest of these was the project 957 (aka Kedr), this was intended as a small, cheap submarine, built with more emphazis on the sub hunting. It was using the common sonar set, which was desighned for all 4th generation submarines to use, which consisted of a spherical, conformal and towed arrays.

It was also using a standartised 4th generation powerplant - the monoblock KTM6, however the powerplant was not availiable by the time Soviet Union broke down.

In over all ideology of the project it was quite simmilar to the Los Angeles class (and now Virginia class), with a sinlge hull, 4 torpedo tubes and separate vertical launchers for 533mm calliber cruise missiles.

The submarine was intended to be produced after the project 945AB submarines were completed on that same plant, the work on 2 hulls was started but was never completed.

The second 4th generation project I would discuss in this post is the pr.881 mamoth, which was intended as an Oscar replacement with anti ship mission in mind. Due to the improvements in the US Carrier groups ASW capabilities Soviet designers felt that there was a requirement for a longer range, faster sub launched weapon.

Such weapons (the Bolid) were created, however due to their huge size an even larger (than Oscar class, as it could hold only 12 such weapons) submarine was desighned using standard 4th generation subsystems (sonar, powerplant and so on), there also was a Yahont armed variant of this submarine.

Both of those projects (with the exception of two project 957 hulls in production) were cancelled for the project 885 submarine, which was seen as the -do it all- multirole sub, even though all 3 were intended for production in paralel.

ikalugin · 10-10-14, 05:59 PM

Transitionary 3rd->4th generation submarines of Soviet and Russian navies.

Between the project 945A and project 957 there were a series of two subs layed down which could be considered to be 3-4th generation submarines, the project 945AB. Those submarines were to recieve the 4th generation powerplants and new electronics suit, but retain the old 3rd generation hulls.

The new Russian efforts include the upgrades of the Akula (and Sierra) series submarines during their mid life repairs and refits, with new sonar and other electronic equipment. In my opinion it is quite possible that they would receive new conformal bow arrays, as well as new towed arrays.

The current program calls for the upgrade of 6 Akula, 2 Sierra and 4 Oscar series submarines. Oscars would receive different missile launchers (amongst other things), which would turn them into missile trucks with 96 missiles per vessel.

ikalugin · 10-10-14, 06:21 PM

On the current projects.

Currently in Russian service there are 3 4th generation submarine projects - 885, 955, 677. All of those 3 projects have suffered considerable difficulties during their production (due to the funding issues in 90s and 00s, as well as the general industrial collapse), however at the moment those appear to be somewhat solved.

I wont go into the well known details, but would try to point things often not known even by the sub fans.

The first submarine of project 885 (Severodvinsk, the original subject of this thread) has suffered a lot of production issues, it did not recieve the 4th generation powerplant due to the delays, its electronics suit was outdated by it's completion due to the lengthy production process.

However it is still a powerfully armed (8 torpedo tubes, 24-32 VLS rounds) and fairly silent submarin desighn, with a good sonar suit.

The updated, modern, fully 4th generation boats are the project 885M (this is popular designation of the follow up boats), several of which are in production at this time.

The 2nd one, the project 955 has suffered simmilar problems. However due to the sheer importance of the nuclear deterrent several decisions were made to allow quicker rates of production - mainly changing the project to use the hull sections and other equipment pre produced by the USSR for the follow up Akula series boats, this is known as project 09551, first 3 boats were built under this desighn.

The original could be seen here:

The follow up boats (project 09552, from the 4th boat onwards) receive the 4th generation features intended in the original, with increased missile load (to 20 SLBM rounds) and other major changes.

An intersting spin off desighn is the pr. 935 which is a downscaled version of pr. 955. It could be seen here:

The last but not least is the Lada class, project 677. Although only one submarine of this class is complete, this single hull boat is quite interesting to study as it is the first conventional submarine to carry a towed sonar array and to have a large aperture bow array that could be seen here:

ikalugin · 10-10-14, 06:23 PM

as a post scriptum - if you have any specific questions, you are welcome to ask. Note that I use open sources only, so the drawings posted by me are not 100 percent precise.

and I appologize in advance for all the posts

and lack of style, I wrote this late at night :*(

Onkel Neal · 10-11-14, 03:18 AM

Great stuff, thanks!

VirtualVikingX · 10-11-14, 08:03 AM

Thanks!

Jimbuna · 10-11-14, 08:09 AM

Most interesting

ikalugin · 10-11-14, 02:11 PM

Glad to be of use, however asking any constructive questions would boost my sense of self importance to new levels :P

On the topic, obviously we have a number of new, 4th and 4th->5th generation submarine projects going on now, though there is very little information on the specifics. One of such projects (though apparently the project that didnt make it past the paper stage) could be seen here:

10-09-14, 07:57 AM	#1
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Severodvinsk leaves Severodvinsk. Source: http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/322400.html

10-09-14, 08:23 AM	#2
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Dang thats a cool picture. That just became my laptop wallpaper. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

10-09-14, 01:04 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,334 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Nice looker, hope she's quieter than some of her predecessors. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

10-10-14, 05:32 PM	#7
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Ok. I will begin with the Soviet projects them. The first submarine I would discuss is the oldest 4th generation project we had, and probably it is the most interesting one for the Western reader. The reason for this is because it was a fairly unusual submarine type for the Soviets. The project 958 submarine (Afalina class) originated from the Soviet studies on how to protect our then vulnerable boomers, when they were patrolling in NA areas, the areas contested with the US forces. The idea was to create two destrinct submarine types - an "AWACS" (project 693) submarine with advanced sonar, and the "interceptor" submarines (project 657) which would be vectored onto their targets. With the development of trully long range submarine launched ballistic missiles the patrol routes shifted to the friendly waters and thus the need for such a complex set up dissapeared. The requirement to engage hositly boomers on their home ground did remain, leading to the development of the project 958 submarine. As you could see it had a large aperture conformal array, as well as large diameter bow spherical array and a long towed array. The armament was fairly conservative - 6 533mm tubes, however this was sufficient for sub hunting. To keep the submarine survivable it's sonar signature has been substantially reduced, based on the insights gained from project 991. Some of the ideas from it, and project 991 were realised on the a far better known sub - the Shyka-B series (project 971 aka Akula class). Last edited by ikalugin; 10-10-14 at 06:43 PM.

10-10-14, 05:47 PM	#8
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The second post of mine is dedicated to the general line up of the Soviet 4th generation projects. The smallest of these was the project 957 (aka Kedr), this was intended as a small, cheap submarine, built with more emphazis on the sub hunting. It was using the common sonar set, which was desighned for all 4th generation submarines to use, which consisted of a spherical, conformal and towed arrays. It was also using a standartised 4th generation powerplant - the monoblock KTM6, however the powerplant was not availiable by the time Soviet Union broke down. In over all ideology of the project it was quite simmilar to the Los Angeles class (and now Virginia class), with a sinlge hull, 4 torpedo tubes and separate vertical launchers for 533mm calliber cruise missiles. The submarine was intended to be produced after the project 945AB submarines were completed on that same plant, the work on 2 hulls was started but was never completed. The second 4th generation project I would discuss in this post is the pr.881 mamoth, which was intended as an Oscar replacement with anti ship mission in mind. Due to the improvements in the US Carrier groups ASW capabilities Soviet designers felt that there was a requirement for a longer range, faster sub launched weapon. Such weapons (the Bolid) were created, however due to their huge size an even larger (than Oscar class, as it could hold only 12 such weapons) submarine was desighned using standard 4th generation subsystems (sonar, powerplant and so on), there also was a Yahont armed variant of this submarine. Both of those projects (with the exception of two project 957 hulls in production) were cancelled for the project 885 submarine, which was seen as the -do it all- multirole sub, even though all 3 were intended for production in paralel. Last edited by ikalugin; 10-10-14 at 06:45 PM.

10-09-14, 08:27 AM	#3
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Well we are known for making good looking naval vessels.

10-10-14, 02:52 PM	#6
VirtualVikingX Captain Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 261 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Yes.

10-10-14, 05:59 PM	#9
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Transitionary 3rd->4th generation submarines of Soviet and Russian navies. Between the project 945A and project 957 there were a series of two subs layed down which could be considered to be 3-4th generation submarines, the project 945AB. Those submarines were to recieve the 4th generation powerplants and new electronics suit, but retain the old 3rd generation hulls. The new Russian efforts include the upgrades of the Akula (and Sierra) series submarines during their mid life repairs and refits, with new sonar and other electronic equipment. In my opinion it is quite possible that they would receive new conformal bow arrays, as well as new towed arrays. The current program calls for the upgrade of 6 Akula, 2 Sierra and 4 Oscar series submarines. Oscars would receive different missile launchers (amongst other things), which would turn them into missile trucks with 96 missiles per vessel.

10-10-14, 06:21 PM	#10
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	On the current projects. Currently in Russian service there are 3 4th generation submarine projects - 885, 955, 677. All of those 3 projects have suffered considerable difficulties during their production (due to the funding issues in 90s and 00s, as well as the general industrial collapse), however at the moment those appear to be somewhat solved. I wont go into the well known details, but would try to point things often not known even by the sub fans. The first submarine of project 885 (Severodvinsk, the original subject of this thread) has suffered a lot of production issues, it did not recieve the 4th generation powerplant due to the delays, its electronics suit was outdated by it's completion due to the lengthy production process. However it is still a powerfully armed (8 torpedo tubes, 24-32 VLS rounds) and fairly silent submarin desighn, with a good sonar suit. The updated, modern, fully 4th generation boats are the project 885M (this is popular designation of the follow up boats), several of which are in production at this time. The 2nd one, the project 955 has suffered simmilar problems. However due to the sheer importance of the nuclear deterrent several decisions were made to allow quicker rates of production - mainly changing the project to use the hull sections and other equipment pre produced by the USSR for the follow up Akula series boats, this is known as project 09551, first 3 boats were built under this desighn. The original could be seen here: The follow up boats (project 09552, from the 4th boat onwards) receive the 4th generation features intended in the original, with increased missile load (to 20 SLBM rounds) and other major changes. An intersting spin off desighn is the pr. 935 which is a downscaled version of pr. 955. It could be seen here: The last but not least is the Lada class, project 677. Although only one submarine of this class is complete, this single hull boat is quite interesting to study as it is the first conventional submarine to carry a towed sonar array and to have a large aperture bow array that could be seen here: Last edited by ikalugin; 10-10-14 at 06:59 PM.

10-10-14, 06:23 PM	#11
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	as a post scriptum - if you have any specific questions, you are welcome to ask. Note that I use open sources only, so the drawings posted by me are not 100 percent precise. and I appologize in advance for all the posts and lack of style, I wrote this late at night :( Last edited by ikalugin; 10-10-14 at 06:46 PM.*

10-11-14, 03:18 AM	#12
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Great stuff, thanks! __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

10-11-14, 08:03 AM	#13
VirtualVikingX Captain Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 261 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Thanks!

10-11-14, 08:09 AM	#14
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,334 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Most interesting __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

10-11-14, 02:11 PM	#15
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Glad to be of use, however asking any constructive questions would boost my sense of self importance to new levels :P On the topic, obviously we have a number of new, 4th and 4th->5th generation submarine projects going on now, though there is very little information on the specifics. One of such projects (though apparently the project that didnt make it past the paper stage) could be seen here: