US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 752

u crank · 11-11-20, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Only if the colour fits your tinfoil hat, we do not want visual environmental pollution.

I don't see any reason for the tinfoil hat. I look dumb enough with a mask.

skidman · 11-11-20, 03:48 PM

So, none of the GOP and Trump campaign’s allegations of election irregularities has been proved as yet. False key witnesses have withdrawn statements. The matter is done and dusted me thinks and the Trumpists look like a bunch of sore losers who make fools of themselves. Pathetic.

Catfish · 11-11-20, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Ok Trump refuse to accept the outcome. Biden has said he won. They seem to have fight these two a verbal fight over who won...

Not quite. All polling stations have reported that all went along calmly, and the outcome has been approved, even by the republican states that lost to Biden declared there was no "voter fraud", and it has been one of the calmest elections ever. The only one who does not believe it is Trump himself and 48 percent of the US population who do not want to believe it, and try to turn it around with conspiracy theories.

Now it costs time and labour during a pandemic to recount that all again due to Trump's accusations and lose precious time in organising a real plan to fight the pandemic.
But ok since all seem to have agreed to it why not just wait and see how the turnout of a recount will be? What will Trump say if Biden is still the winner? See you in two weeks.

skidman · 11-11-20, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u crank

Well gallows humor might ease the pain till someone kicks the stool.

u crank · 11-11-20, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidman

Well gallows humor might ease the pain till someone kicks the stool.

Humor comes and humor goes. Deleted/

Skybird · 11-11-20, 04:06 PM

Neal,

when i criticise people for voting and hold the accountbale for the choice they made as well as their general legimtiation for what I see as a "rotten system", it is one thing, because I have a history in this forum to speak out against the principle of general elections where everybody can raise his voice no matter his status in society and his contributions to it. Hardly anyone in General Topics is at risk of mistaking me with a loyal "party soldier" or supporter of politicians. I have repeatedly pointed out that the ancient Greeks' understanding of democracy was a feudal one and explcitly exlcuded that everybody could cast his vote on things that were up tio be decided, and that our understanding of it would have been seen as tyranny by them. I also repeatedly referred to the democracy criticism as voiced by for exmaple Jason Brennan (Stanford), and before him Hans-Herrmann Hoppe.

You on the other hand have always given the impression at least to in principle defending the system you have in your country, and that it raises charms at least by allowing smooth and peaceful transitions between governments (what Trump obviously tries to torpedoes and hinder at all cost) when an old government is voted out and a new one was voted in. But now you mock and seem to imply criticism of that in this very system people who by the rules of it (that you approved, I always believed) qualify for voting, now dare to indeed cast a vote of a kind that you do not like, where before they did not care to do it because the case was either not worth it for them or was such that the efforts needed to cast a vote meant to high hurdles. This is a discrimination of polltically disagreeing voters. I remind of that in the state you live in, Texas, some county I beleive had a trump-loyal man in rule who limited for a very huge area and population the number of polling stations down to just a hilerious single one - with the obvious intention to discourage voting and making it as difficult as possible, because the people voting in this voting district were expected to maybe not vote for Trump.

You see now that I must see this as contradictory - and as hypocritical. Either you go all the way and condemn the very system independent of indiviodual poltlical views of voter groups, like I do, or you accept it, but then you must go all the way again and must acept that people cast their vote as they like, even if you do not like their political choice. But talking of free general elections and making a holy high mass of it as if it were at the centre of "democracy" (and the US for sure makes elections of this kind a high mass in explicit denial of its heavily manipulated design: I just say gerrymandering again, but also the weighting of votes via the system of electorate college), but at the same time indicating, at least leaving it an option of interpretation, that one would prefer if certain unwanted political opinions would be discriminated and hindered to vote, is not acceptable (to me at least, regimes like China and Russia and others may disagree with me).

I did not expect this attitude from you. Hence my earlier reply that I found it hard to believe that I just red you wrote it.

It must not mean anything to you and is no demand to you, but I found several recent posts by you irritating and surprising to come from not anybody, but you. I saw your more as a man of the conservative middle. I took them as another signal of to what degree Trump is messing up the politicla and communal climate in the US. As I said before many times: he did not cause it, is just a symptom of soemthing that goes wrong since at least either Nixon or Reagan - but the dsymptom feeds back on the casue that crteated it, makign things wors ethis way. Trump served like an accelerating catalyst. And not before his presidency he threatens to become a cause in his own. It will first overwhlem the Rpeublican party (in fact already has), and then will go after the whole country.

Youre poltical system and your constitutional design is not designed to deal with this before unimaginable kind of enemy to it: its too old-fashioned and has not (and could not) forseen the present situation. Old scriptures will not save it.

Its as if an army has laid in 200+ years old trenches and fortifications and always found shelter in them, and suddenly must learn to leave them and adapt to the principle of highly mobile fighting against an enemy that dopes not even know what trenches and fixed psoitions are and that comes from all directions at fearsome speeds and is everyhwere and nowhere simultaneously.

The US is in a very deep institutional and constitutionial crisis. And I see it as that it can very well break over it. Trump raises challenges and acts in ways that have not been forseen and so no plans have been prpared to delas with this. This includes a tremendous scale of in principle psychological warfare. I am stunned time and again that nobody seems to see that. He will leave the WH sooner or later. But nobody should dare to think that "Trump" then is over. Far from it. Things have just begun.

mapuc · 11-11-20, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Not quite. All polling stations have reoported that all went along calmly, and the outcome has been appoved, even by the republican states that lost to Biden declared there was no "voter fraud" and it was one of the calmest elections ever. The only one who does not believe it is Trump himself and 48 percent of the US population who do not want to believe it. Democracy sucks when you are not the winner, so lets abandon it. Sore losers indeed.

First of all what you quote from me was written in a neutral way.

As mention before I don't care who my American friends chose as their President.

I say Biden won this one. I can't, based on the news I have seen and heard, see any evidence for a massive voter fraud, which is claimed by Trump and his supporters.

Does this mean there wasn't any voter fraud or any attempt...of course there was but here we talk about parts per million(PPM percentage)
And it went both way..voter fraud in favour for Trump/Biden

Markus

Catfish · 11-11-20, 04:12 PM

^ sorry, i deleted parts of my earlier post. No, I do not think we should continue Trump's fight in this forum, which (for me) was the most important part of your post.

Mr Quatro · 11-11-20, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidman

So, none of the GOP and Trump campaign’s allegations of election irregularities has been proved as yet. False key witnesses have withdrawn statements. The matter is done and dusted me thinks and the Trumpists look like a bunch of sore losers who make fools of themselves. Pathetic.

So if we practice proving voter fraud to skidman we can then go to the SC and prove it to them, right?

Massive US Voters and Consumers Databases Circulate Among Hackers

https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/reso...among-hackers/

Quote:

Voting in the U.S. elections started recently and there is a real concern over interference and disinformation campaigns that might impact their outcome. During investigations around the elections, the Trustwave SpiderLabs team discovered massive databases with detailed information about U.S. voters and consumers offered for sale on several hacker forums. Those databases include a shocking level of detail about citizens including their political affiliation. The sellers of the U.S. voter database claim that it includes 186 million records, and if that is correct, that means it includes information about nearly all voters in the U.S. The information found in the voter database can be used to conduct effective social engineering scams and spread disinformation to potentially impact the elections, particularly in swing states.

plus the data on over 60 million US voters has been found on a German server

skidman · 11-11-20, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Massive US Voters and Consumers Databases Circulate Among Hackers

So what? Is that really all you can come up with? Pathetic.

mapuc · 11-11-20, 04:56 PM

Heard in my left ear some minutes ago.

They are recounting votes in (didn't get which state it was) and Biden is 0.3 Percentage ahead.

Hearing this I was thinking.

Now they are recounting the votes I hope they have "people*" to supervise this recount so it goes 110 % after the book.(I hope they do)

Trump may get some more votes, maybe some hundred in smaller states and maybe a thousand in bigger state.

If the result is the same Biden has won more than 270 electoral then Trump and his supporters can't claim voter fraud.

* I don't know what these authorities are called they are in charge of these places where these counting is done.

Markus

August · 11-11-20, 04:58 PM

I just read that Trump fired SOD Esper because he was slow walking our military withdrawal from Afghanistan. Apparently the Swamp doesn't want it's military industrial complex cash cow taken away. Maybe his acting replacement will light a fire under it but the Generals will continue to oppose the effort.

AVGWarhawk · 11-11-20, 05:22 PM

Here is my little bitty small issue with the whole, let us all be a “United States” again, From Joe Biden.
For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops.
The problem is we have memories longer than a hamster.
We remember the women’s march the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”
We remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass us in restaurants.
We remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out a restaurant.
We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.
We remember Trump supporters getting Doxed, and fired from jobs.
We remember riots, and looting
We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head
We remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump
We remember Robert de Niro yelling “**** Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation.
We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.
We remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media
We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.
We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.
We remember the President and his staff being spied on.
We remember five Senators shot on a ballfield.
We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.
We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.
We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.
We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.
We remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors.
We remember that we were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.
We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.
This list is endless, but you get the idea.
My friends will be my friends, but a party that has be on the attack for 4 long years does not get a free pass with me
So take your let’s be nice and shove it up your ass!
Disclaimer: Copied. Not my post, and probably not my last political post. And, BTW, I couldn’t care less if you disagree, because, in order to do so, you have to ignore easily proveable facts, and suspend logic.

Dowly · 11-11-20, 05:37 PM

"But most importantly, We remember we were the snowflakes all along."

Onkel Neal · 11-11-20, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Here is my little bitty small issue with the whole, let us all be a “United States” again, From Joe Biden.
For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops.
.

Oh yes, can't agree more. Although I am perfectly willing to start fresh right now, give Biden a fair chance, and see if we can get this country back on track.

Bill Clinton's old lady was basically telling Biden to do what Trumpo is doing now.

11-11-20, 03:48 PM	#11267
skidman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Near the Dutch mountains Posts: 1,147 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	So, none of the GOP and Trump campaign’s allegations of election irregularities has been proved as yet. False key witnesses have withdrawn statements. The matter is done and dusted me thinks and the Trumpists look like a bunch of sore losers who make fools of themselves. Pathetic. __________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” (Douglas Adams)

11-11-20, 04:06 PM	#11271
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,554 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Neal, when i criticise people for voting and hold the accountbale for the choice they made as well as their general legimtiation for what I see as a "rotten system", it is one thing, because I have a history in this forum to speak out against the principle of general elections where everybody can raise his voice no matter his status in society and his contributions to it. Hardly anyone in General Topics is at risk of mistaking me with a loyal "party soldier" or supporter of politicians. I have repeatedly pointed out that the ancient Greeks' understanding of democracy was a *feudal* one and explcitly exlcuded that everybody could cast his vote on things that were up tio be decided, and that our understanding of it would have been seen as tyranny by them. I also repeatedly referred to the democracy criticism as voiced by for exmaple Jason Brennan (Stanford), and before him Hans-Herrmann Hoppe. You on the other hand have always given the impression at least to in principle defending the system you have in your country, and that it raises charms at least by allowing smooth and peaceful transitions between governments (what Trump obviously tries to torpedoes and hinder at all cost) when an old government is voted out and a new one was voted in. But now you mock and seem to imply criticism of that in this very system people who by the rules of it (that you approved, I always believed) qualify for voting, now dare to indeed cast a vote of a kind that you do not like, where before they did not care to do it because the case was either not worth it for them or was such that the efforts needed to cast a vote meant to high hurdles. This is a discrimination of polltically disagreeing voters. I remind of that in the state you live in, Texas, some county I beleive had a trump-loyal man in rule who limited for a very huge area and population the number of polling stations down to just a hilerious single one - with the obvious intention to discourage voting and making it as difficult as possible, because the people voting in this voting district were expected to maybe not vote for Trump. You see now that I must see this as contradictory - and as hypocritical. Either you go all the way and condemn the very system independent of indiviodual poltlical views of voter groups, like I do, or you accept it, but then you must go all the way again and must acept that people cast their vote as they like, even if you do not like their political choice. But talking of free general elections and making a holy high mass of it as if it were at the centre of "democracy" (and the US for sure makes elections of this kind a high mass in explicit denial of its heavily manipulated design: I just say gerrymandering again, but also the weighting of votes via the system of electorate college), but at the same time indicating, at least leaving it an option of interpretation, that one would prefer if certain unwanted political opinions would be discriminated and hindered to vote, is not acceptable (to me at least, regimes like China and Russia and others may disagree with me). I did not expect this attitude from you. Hence my earlier reply that I found it hard to believe that I just red you wrote it. It must not mean anything to you and is no demand to you, but I found several recent posts by you irritating and surprising to come from not anybody, but you. I saw your more as a man of the conservative middle. I took them as another signal of to what degree Trump is messing up the politicla and communal climate in the US. As I said before many times: he did not cause it, is just a symptom of soemthing that goes wrong since at least either Nixon or Reagan - but the dsymptom feeds back on the casue that crteated it, makign things wors ethis way. Trump served like an accelerating catalyst. And not before his presidency he threatens to become a cause in his own. It will first overwhlem the Rpeublican party (in fact already has), and then will go after the whole country. Youre poltical system and your constitutional design is not designed to deal with this before unimaginable kind of enemy to it: its too old-fashioned and has not (and could not) forseen the present situation. Old scriptures will not save it. Its as if an army has laid in 200+ years old trenches and fortifications and always found shelter in them, and suddenly must learn to leave them and adapt to the principle of highly mobile fighting against an enemy that dopes not even know what trenches and fixed psoitions are and that comes from all directions at fearsome speeds and is everyhwere and nowhere simultaneously. The US is in a very deep institutional and constitutionial crisis. And I see it as that it can very well break over it. Trump raises challenges and acts in ways that have not been forseen and so no plans have been prpared to delas with this. This includes a tremendous scale of in principle psychological warfare. I am stunned time and again that nobody seems to see that. He will leave the WH sooner or later. But nobody should dare to think that "Trump" then is over. Far from it. Things have just begun. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-11-20, 04:12 PM	#11273
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ sorry, i deleted parts of my earlier post. No, I do not think we should continue Trump's fight in this forum, which (for me) was the most important part of your post. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 11-11-20 at 04:20 PM.*

11-11-20, 04:58 PM	#11277
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 22,686 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I just read that Trump fired SOD Esper because he was slow walking our military withdrawal from Afghanistan. Apparently the Swamp doesn't want it's military industrial complex cash cow taken away. Maybe his acting replacement will light a fire under it but the Generals will continue to oppose the effort. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

11-11-20, 05:22 PM	#11278
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 27,343 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Here is my little bitty small issue with the whole, let us all be a “United States” again, From Joe Biden. For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops. The problem is we have memories longer than a hamster. We remember the women’s march the day after inauguration. We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…” We remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass us in restaurants. We remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out a restaurant. We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked. We remember Trump supporters getting Doxed, and fired from jobs. We remember riots, and looting We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head We remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump We remember Robert de Niro yelling “**** Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation. We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address. We remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters. We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media. We remember the President and his staff being spied on. We remember five Senators shot on a ballfield. We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest. We remember 95% negative coverage in the news. We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems. We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants. We remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors. We remember that we were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump. We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed. This list is endless, but you get the idea. My friends will be my friends, but a party that has be on the attack for 4 long years does not get a free pass with me So take your let’s be nice and shove it up your ass! Disclaimer: Copied. Not my post, and probably not my last political post. And, BTW, I couldn’t care less if you disagree, because, in order to do so, you have to ignore easily proveable facts, and suspend logic. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

11-11-20, 04:56 PM	#11276
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,947 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Heard in my left ear some minutes ago. They are recounting votes in (didn't get which state it was) and Biden is 0.3 Percentage ahead. Hearing this I was thinking. Now they are recounting the votes I hope they have "people" to supervise this recount so it goes 110 % after the book.(I hope they do) Trump may get some more votes, maybe some hundred in smaller states and maybe a thousand in bigger state. If the result is the same Biden has won more than 270 electoral then Trump and his supporters can't claim voter fraud. I don't know what these authorities are called they are in charge of these places where these counting is done. Markus

11-11-20, 05:37 PM	#11279
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	"But most importantly, We remember we were the snowflakes all along."