Sub command sonar issue and other questions

[cake5150]

Hello folks, this is my first post here but I have enjoyed reading through the threads over the last couple months. I downloaded Sub Command and Dangerous Waters from gamersgate.com in late February and have thoroughly enjoyed playing both games. I do have a couple questions though in case any of you can lend some advice.

1. In both SC and DW, I noticed that on a sub platform (I've used 688I and seawolf class boats) I am prevented at times from assigning a tracker to a passive sonar contact when it only appears on the intermediate or long term waterfall displays. Despite being traceable on longer term displays, if it does not show up on short term I sometimes cannot assign a tracker. I have the sonar auto-crew turned off.

2. Are convergence zones accurately modeled in these games? I have played both but possibly not extensively enough to notice if noisy contacts show up one or more convergence zones away.

3. I know both platforms I discussed above have different towed array systems (TB-23 vs. -29 if I recall) deployable from port vs. starboard, are the different capabilities of the respective arrays represented in the games or are they roughly equivalent?

4. Is it just me or are the TMA capabilities better on SC than in DW?

5. Is there a way to get hostile ASW platforms to STOP constantly banging away w/ active sonar at 45 sec intervals and thus advertising their position far outside their active detection range. I feel like this is a bit unrealistic, as none of the hostiles I have engaged in the missions I've created have operated under any sort of emission control whatsoever.

6. Maybe I'm just not getting it, but where do we place downloaded scenarios so we can play them? I've tried this a couple times but can't seem to get it to work.

ETA:
7. Is there any way to delete custom scenarios after creating them? Or at least renaming them to something else?

On a side note, I really wish I'd discovered the existence of these games long ago, I thoroughly enjoy them overall!!

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by cake5150

Hello folks, this is my first post here but I have enjoyed reading through the threads over the last couple months. I downloaded Sub Command and Dangerous Waters from gamersgate.com in late February and have thoroughly enjoyed playing both games. I do have a couple questions though in case any of you can lend some advice.

1. In both SC and DW, I noticed that on a sub platform (I've used 688I and seawolf class boats) I am prevented at times from assigning a tracker to a passive sonar contact when it only appears on the intermediate or long term waterfall displays. Despite being traceable on longer term displays, if it does not show up on short term I sometimes cannot assign a tracker. I have the sonar auto-crew turned off.

Yup. I don't know what happens 'under the hood' in SC/DW but it seems you need to be close enough to allow detection on the short term waterfall. The tracker doesn't seem to make use of time-averaging. Actually, I think the tracker is totally seperate from the waterfall. It is just a user-interface gizmo to help you.

2. Are convergence zones accurately modeled in these games? I have played both but possibly not extensively enough to notice if noisy contacts show up one or more convergence zones away.

It has been reported by some. But I have never noticed it. Then again not investigated it either. It's supposed to be a fairly thin ring anyway, so it is easily missed if you don't pay attention.

3. I know both platforms I discussed above have different towed array systems (TB-23 vs. -29 if I recall) deployable from port vs. starboard, are the different capabilities of the respective arrays represented in the games or are they roughly equivalent?

I don't know what the detection differential is (system sensitivity), but ownship propulsion noise and flownoise makes a big deal in detection range. So in practice you do notice the difference. But it's been ages since I played SC or DW. On top of that it depends which mod(s) you use.

4. Is it just me or are the TMA capabilities better on SC than in DW?

How so? The AUTO-crew still cheats anyway!

5. Is there a way to get hostile ASW platforms to STOP constantly banging away w/ active sonar at 45 sec intervals and thus advertising their position far outside their active detection range. I feel like this is a bit unrealistic, as none of the hostiles I have engaged in the missions I've created have operated under any sort of emission control whatsoever.

I believe there is an EMCON option in the unit/waypoint propperties in the mission designer. But if it isn't set in the given scenarios then it's not going to change. Besides, active sonar may be their most advantageous sensor the have. Surface ships have a much louder propulsion noise since the cavitation speed is much lower at 0 depth. So there is little use in passive detection. And active sonar usually uses frequencies well above it.

6. Maybe I'm just not getting it, but where do we place downloaded scenarios so we can play them? I've tried this a couple times but can't seem to get it to work.

In the SC_orDW_installfolder\scenarios folder. If you happen to have Vista or Windows 7, and the game is installed to the default folder in c:\Program Files\, then it may prevent you from adding or modifying files there. The 'easy' solution is to provide a different install folder path somewhere else on your harddrive (like c:\games\SubCommand). Otherwise you need to run the game explicitly as administrator, and acknowledge the User Account Control pop-up. Trust me, if there is modding involved with your games, don't fall for the default install folder.

ETA:
7. Is there any way to delete custom scenarios after creating them? Or at least renaming them to something else?

Like I said in the above. the Scenarios folder is where you need to be. And have administrator credentials if Vista/Win7 bug you in the Program Files folder. And it is probably a good idea to have SC or DW shut down while you delete/rename those files.

[cake5150]

For the sonar issue I described above w/ being unable to assign a tracker, I've figured out how to get around it a couple different ways.

1. My preferred way (because I don't care for using auto sonar crew): Go into narrowband and find the same contact's signal. It seems I can assign a tracker here when the trace on the LTA broadband waterfall is too faint. That being said, after doing more reading on this forum I have started monitoring the narrowband on a regular basis rather than just using it for classification. I've picked up large surface craft at over 30nm using narrowband long before they show up on broadband on scenarios I've designed especially to practice this. When the contact is REALLY far away, it seems assigning a contact in the narrowband (just placing the cursor over the bearing where the signal is emanating from) is not possible either. However, by using the cursor in the frequency panel I've been able to assign a tracker as far away as I've been able to detect. I pick the lowest frequency line and assign a tracker to it.

2. Quick way: Temporarily turn on auto crew, then turn off as soon as he assigns the tracker.

I'm sure you guys know all this already as apparently this game has been around a while (wish I'd known about it a long time ago), but thought I'd post this anyway. This is for SC only, I've not tried it on DW yet.