War in the Pacific AAR Thread - ML vs JFranzen

Threadfin · 06-24-21, 11:13 AM

Grim. Hang in there mate.

Is there any offensive action you've been thinking of that could put your opponent off balance? Or is a fighting withdrawal the only real option at this point?

You need your subs to start getting in and hurting his ability support all of these far-flung occupations, if that's a thing. But you have neither the numbers or I guess reliable torpedoes to get this done.

I'm interested in the submarine side of this. Are you choosing where they patrol? If so where are you sending them? As you surely know (I can tell from your posts you are well-versed in the Pacific war), dull-minded leaders such as Christie and English wasted many patrols by placing them at route terminuses, terminii, err, at the place they dock. lol

But experience, hindsight and sharper brains of course showed that there were several chokepoints that could have proved far more profitable in interdicting the merchant traffic of the Japanese while allowing the sea room needed to be effective, and out from under the most intense enemy ASW. It's tempting to put boats outside Rabaul or Truk I would imagine, but they may prove more effective say in Makassar or Luzon straits. Could a concentration of available submarine striking power in very few places make a difference and maybe make him reign in his audacity?

Maybe if you get the time and want to hit on how you approach the submarine war, I'd be interested in how it works mechanically and from a tactical or strategic point of view. But I know how much work it is just producing the reports, so no obligation of course. Things should hopefully be brighter for 1942, as more boats come to the theatre, and their effectiveness improves due to technical advances (radar, improved torpedoes, depth capability, tubes, capacity, etc). Not sure how deeply this is modeled, but I'd expect that your boats will become more effective, all else being equal.

Good AAR, mate. Keep it up.

Threadfin · 06-24-21, 11:17 AM

I should also ask if he is a member here and reading this AAR? If so I could understand a reluctance to share your plans.

Molon Labe · 06-24-21, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Threadfin

Grim. Hang in there mate.

Is there any offensive action you've been thinking of that could put your opponent off balance? Or is a fighting withdrawal the only real option at this point?

You need your subs to start getting in and hurting his ability support all of these far-flung occupations, if that's a thing. But you have neither the numbers or I guess reliable torpedoes to get this done.

I'm interested in the submarine side of this. Are you choosing where they patrol? If so where are you sending them? As you surely know (I can tell from your posts you are well-versed in the Pacific war), dull-minded leaders such as Christie and English wasted many patrols by placing them at route terminuses, terminii, err, at the place they dock. lol

But experience, hindsight and sharper brains of course showed that there were several chokepoints that could have proved far more profitable in interdicting the merchant traffic of the Japanese while allowing the sea room needed to be effective, and out from under the most intense enemy ASW. It's tempting to put boats outside Rabaul or Truk I would imagine, but they may prove more effective say in Makassar or Luzon straits. Could a concentration of available submarine striking power in very few places make a difference and maybe make him reign in his audacity?

Maybe if you get the time and want to hit on how you approach the submarine war, I'd be interested in how it works mechanically and from a tactical or strategic point of view. But I know how much work it is just producing the reports, so no obligation of course. Things should hopefully be brighter for 1942, as more boats come to the theatre, and their effectiveness improves due to technical advances (radar, improved torpedoes, depth capability, tubes, capacity, etc). Not sure how deeply this is modeled, but I'd expect that your boats will become more effective, all else being equal.

Good AAR, mate. Keep it up.

I've looked around to try to find a username for him here, as far as I know he's not here. But, I've been googling random naval stuff before and been directed to subsim threads. So, OPSEC is something I have to think about when posting here. You'll notice I have a lot more to say about what's already happened than about what happens next.

Right now I'm looking at the potential for limited counteroffensives in the DEI and SouthPac areas. I've appeared to have the stronger fleet in SouthPac for awhile. In DEI, even with three task forces operating near Kendari, it looks like his Optempo has caught up with him and a lot of surface forces have had to pull back for refuel/rearm/maintenance. But, with that reduction in forces, he's being more methodical. I wouldn't attack those three task forces off Kendari with what I have there now, too much strength in a small place. In SouthPAC, the big question is airpower. Rabaul is going to be a problem soon, if it's not already. The KB isn't far from there. The CVLBG might be headed there. And the way he has cruisers just sitting off Fiji waving at our scoutplanes is just weird and unsettling. It really looks like he's trying to bait me.

Right now the Dutch sub fleet are focused on choke points in the DEI. US Asiatic fleet boats are mostly tasked to shipping lanes from the Luzon area to the southern/western part of Japan. US West coast boats are mostly sitting off Japan or major hubs like Truk and Rabaul. I think he's figured out most of my patrol areas and has adjusted, I'm starting to open up a little to try to find the traffic. The sub mission is still mostly anti-troop transport at this point, he's conquered so little of the resource areas there isn't going to be a whole lot of fuel/resource convoys to interdict.

EDIT: about the sub's capabilities. All torps have a dud rate, but the US torps are especially bad until sometime in 1943. So that is modeled. Also, just about every ship has an upgrade schedule. That includes things like radar, so yes, they're going to get more effective over time. Speaking of which, it's almost January, I should look at the upgrade schedule and see who's due.

EDIT 2: here's an example of a scheduled upgrade. This one improves the subs AA guns and puts some radars on it.

Threadfin · 06-24-21, 12:00 PM

Thanks a lot for the info. It's all very interesting, in a vicarious sort of way.

It makes me want to play it honestly. I'm deeply interested in the Pacific war, and in these sorts of game. WitE had no naval component at all, which among other things allowed me to bypass and isolate Sevastopol, which I would not have done had it been a naval base.

But in the Pacific this is centrally improtant of course, and the notion of controlling it all according to what I think should be done is appealing. Having a human opponent just makes it all the more interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience Molon Labe.

Molon Labe · 06-25-21, 09:45 AM

1 January 1942
Japan lands on Kendari

Dutch East Indies
The attack on Kendari finally came. 8 transports plowed through the minefield. One took two hits and sank. One of my PT squads ran into their covering force and was driven off. Casualties from losing the AK to a mine were bad, but he still landed at least a regiment. It's enough.

Near Surabaya, a damaged cargo ship that had been sheltering at Balikpapan but was moving to Surabaya for "real" repairs was picked off by a sub.

He moved some Oscars to protect Billiton from my air raids with a long-range CAP. And Murphy showed up and made sure my escorting fighters got separated from their bombers. I lost two medium bombers and 3 Swordfish torpedo bombers.

The CVLBG is still gone. It might be replenishing at Palau, headed for the Solomons, or returning to Japan. If its the Solomons, I'll probably reacquire it in another day, maybe two.

Philippines
The S-36 sank two cargo ships in the Luzon strait, a Kyushu class and a C-class. Way to show up the more modern boats! It helps that its Mk10 torpedoes work. The Kyushus in particular are valuable, they're 18-knot boats that are great for moving armies around.

Air raids on Clark claimed a P-35 but cost him a light bomber and 2 mediums. He's still bombing from too high to hit anything in these hills. His main force has moved from Manila to Clark and is ready to attack. As expected, he left behind enough in Manila to stop my isolated units from retaking it.

I mixed things up a bit by sending my B-17s back to Cam Rahn Bay to bomb the port, but the raid was ineffective. I'm sad to report that all of my fighter squadrons here have taken such heavy losses that they're essentially combat ineffective. He's basically won the air campaign and will enjoy air superiority going forward.

Malaya
He hit the retreating transports again with Nells and did better today. We lost 2 Buffalos and claimed 3 Nells. But the Nells got 3 hits on the transport Leonard Wood, sinking it. They also got a minesweeper on ASW patrol and hit the drydocked Repulse with a pair of bombs.

His army (Imperial Guards Division and 18th Division) attacked my units as they withdrew from the Johore road. They didn't cause a rout, but thanks to their air support they inflicted much more severe casualties than they took.

I've replaced another Buffalo squadron with Hurricanes. The first conversion should get their first taste of combat tomorrow.

SouthPac
The enemy SAG sitting south of Suva decided to attack and bombarded the base. The base reports the enemy composition is 2 CL and 1 DD. Yeah, I can take them, just not this turn. The bombardment damaged 2 scout planes and did minor facility damage. Frustratingly, it appears this group has left the area. I had just positioned some cruisers for an attack overnight. Maybe it's still there and my scoutplanes missed it. Or its withdrawing towards the Solomons. It could even be headed to Pago.

CENTPAC
My patrol aircraft continue to suffer attrition from enemy CAPs. They're pretty badly degraded now. But not so badly degraded that I wasn't able to confirm that the KB was still there. And also not so degraded that I missed this:

Is that really a CVE off to the east? Probably not. (EDIT: The CVE Taiyo is NOT known to be part of the CVLBG, so this could be her) But if it's a scoutplane-carrying cruiser, that's not much better. The only thing to the southeast is my shipping lane to SouthPac. Traffic there is a lot thinner than it was a few days ago, but there is at least one convoy there that I'd really rather not get sunk.

China
My southern army trying to take lightly-guarded bases ran into an unexpected surprise: level 4 forts at Swatow. So even though I outnumber them significantly, and a lot of those troops are broken from a recent defeat, I'd need more troops to take this--combat engineers in particular. Oh well.

Guam
Added this as an afterthought. He's been bombing Guam pretty consistently with Nells/Betties and Kates from probably the Soryu. Today it was just Nells. Soryu may be on the move.

Threadfin · 06-25-21, 11:39 AM

When I was posting yesterday I thought about the Mark 10s and wondered if your S-boats had them or if other fleet boats might be sailing with them or mixed loads.

And good to see your S-boats aren't just running aground all over the place haha. Two sinkings is good, and that's the place I'd be sending them too. I hope one of your boats can pick off a CV. We need more good news from the war front

Molon Labe · 06-25-21, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Threadfin

When I was posting yesterday I thought about the Mark 10s and wondered if your S-boats had them or if other fleet boats might be sailing with them or mixed loads.

And good to see your S-boats aren't just running aground all over the place haha. Two sinkings is good, and that's the place I'd be sending them too. I hope one of your boats can pick off a CV. We need more good news from the war front

I gave the S-boats the high-priority tasks in the expected Luzon landing areas right from the beginning because of this.

I can't control loadouts except for torpedo bombers, so the rest of the fleet is stuck with the Mk14.

Molon Labe · 06-26-21, 01:11 AM

2 January 1942
And you thought he was dangerous in a Buffalo...

Dutch East Indies
One of the PT squadrons trying to get out of Kendari got trapped between land and an approaching landing force, including a heavy cruiser. This squadron was already down to 3 boats, now it's just one. Kendari withstood the enemy's assault, but with reduced fortifications.

I have yet to reacquire the CVLBG.

Malaya
He sent over 100 bombers to hit my army units on the Johore Road. His army would later attack and turn their withdrawal into rout. They're trying to recover at Malacca now.

My first ace, G.L. Hesketh of the New Zealand No. 488 Squadron, had the honor of being the first to fly the Hurricane into combat in the Pacific theatre. The enemy showed up to bomb the airfield and port facilities at Singapore. Hesketh claimed two zeroes and two Sally bombers before his plane was damaged too badly to continue fighting. The only other victory was a Sally brought down by AA. Hesketh is now a double-ace with 11 kills. The raid bounced a few more bombs off the Repulse, which is apparently destined to live in drydock for the rest of the war.

Philippines
A sweep over Clark cost me a pair each of P-40s and P-35s. My B-17s went to Takao this time to bomb the port and once again were ineffective.

CENTPAC
A change in tactics for the enemy today--they sent in 2 minesweepers to try to clear a path to Pearl, and then bombarded the base with a battleship at long range. The minesweepers were shot to hell by coastal defense guns. But the battleship hurt, sending shrapnel into about two dozen planes all over Hickam Field and causing significant human casualties.

No sign yet of the maybe-Taiyo near my shipping lanes.

Burma
A sub-battalion sized unit took over Mergui, an empty base on the Thai-Burma border and the top of the Malayan peninsula.

06-24-21, 11:13 AM	#1
Threadfin Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Grim. Hang in there mate. Is there any offensive action you've been thinking of that could put your opponent off balance? Or is a fighting withdrawal the only real option at this point? You need your subs to start getting in and hurting his ability support all of these far-flung occupations, if that's a thing. But you have neither the numbers or I guess reliable torpedoes to get this done. I'm interested in the submarine side of this. Are you choosing where they patrol? If so where are you sending them? As you surely know (I can tell from your posts you are well-versed in the Pacific war), dull-minded leaders such as Christie and English wasted many patrols by placing them at route terminuses, terminii, err, at the place they dock. lol But experience, hindsight and sharper brains of course showed that there were several chokepoints that could have proved far more profitable in interdicting the merchant traffic of the Japanese while allowing the sea room needed to be effective, and out from under the most intense enemy ASW. It's tempting to put boats outside Rabaul or Truk I would imagine, but they may prove more effective say in Makassar or Luzon straits. Could a concentration of available submarine striking power in very few places make a difference and maybe make him reign in his audacity? Maybe if you get the time and want to hit on how you approach the submarine war, I'd be interested in how it works mechanically and from a tactical or strategic point of view. But I know how much work it is just producing the reports, so no obligation of course. Things should hopefully be brighter for 1942, as more boats come to the theatre, and their effectiveness improves due to technical advances (radar, improved torpedoes, depth capability, tubes, capacity, etc). Not sure how deeply this is modeled, but I'd expect that your boats will become more effective, all else being equal. Good AAR, mate. Keep it up. __________________ What? Behind the rabbit? Last edited by Threadfin; 06-24-21 at 11:21 AM.

06-24-21, 11:17 AM	#2
Threadfin Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I should also ask if he is a member here and reading this AAR? If so I could understand a reluctance to share your plans. __________________ What? Behind the rabbit?

06-24-21, 12:00 PM	#4
Threadfin Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Thanks a lot for the info. It's all very interesting, in a vicarious sort of way. It makes me want to play it honestly. I'm deeply interested in the Pacific war, and in these sorts of game. WitE had no naval component at all, which among other things allowed me to bypass and isolate Sevastopol, which I would not have done had it been a naval base. But in the Pacific this is centrally improtant of course, and the notion of controlling it all according to what I think should be done is appealing. Having a human opponent just makes it all the more interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience Molon Labe. __________________ What? Behind the rabbit?

06-25-21, 09:45 AM	#5
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	1 January 1942 Japan lands on Kendari Dutch East Indies The attack on Kendari finally came. 8 transports plowed through the minefield. One took two hits and sank. One of my PT squads ran into their covering force and was driven off. Casualties from losing the AK to a mine were bad, but he still landed at least a regiment. It's enough. Near Surabaya, a damaged cargo ship that had been sheltering at Balikpapan but was moving to Surabaya for "real" repairs was picked off by a sub. He moved some Oscars to protect Billiton from my air raids with a long-range CAP. And Murphy showed up and made sure my escorting fighters got separated from their bombers. I lost two medium bombers and 3 Swordfish torpedo bombers. The CVLBG is still gone. It might be replenishing at Palau, headed for the Solomons, or returning to Japan. If its the Solomons, I'll probably reacquire it in another day, maybe two. Philippines The S-36 sank two cargo ships in the Luzon strait, a Kyushu class and a C-class. Way to show up the more modern boats! It helps that its Mk10 torpedoes work. The Kyushus in particular are valuable, they're 18-knot boats that are great for moving armies around. Air raids on Clark claimed a P-35 but cost him a light bomber and 2 mediums. He's still bombing from too high to hit anything in these hills. His main force has moved from Manila to Clark and is ready to attack. As expected, he left behind enough in Manila to stop my isolated units from retaking it. I mixed things up a bit by sending my B-17s back to Cam Rahn Bay to bomb the port, but the raid was ineffective. I'm sad to report that all of my fighter squadrons here have taken such heavy losses that they're essentially combat ineffective. He's basically won the air campaign and will enjoy air superiority going forward. Malaya He hit the retreating transports again with Nells and did better today. We lost 2 Buffalos and claimed 3 Nells. But the Nells got 3 hits on the transport Leonard Wood, sinking it. They also got a minesweeper on ASW patrol and hit the drydocked Repulse with a pair of bombs. His army (Imperial Guards Division and 18th Division) attacked my units as they withdrew from the Johore road. They didn't cause a rout, but thanks to their air support they inflicted much more severe casualties than they took. I've replaced another Buffalo squadron with Hurricanes. The first conversion should get their first taste of combat tomorrow. SouthPac The enemy SAG sitting south of Suva decided to attack and bombarded the base. The base reports the enemy composition is 2 CL and 1 DD. Yeah, I can take them, just not this turn. The bombardment damaged 2 scout planes and did minor facility damage. Frustratingly, it appears this group has left the area. I had just positioned some cruisers for an attack overnight. Maybe it's still there and my scoutplanes missed it. Or its withdrawing towards the Solomons. It could even be headed to Pago. CENTPAC My patrol aircraft continue to suffer attrition from enemy CAPs. They're pretty badly degraded now. But not so badly degraded that I wasn't able to confirm that the KB was still there. And also not so degraded that I missed this: Is that really a CVE off to the east? Probably not. (EDIT: The CVE Taiyo is NOT known to be part of the CVLBG, so this could be her) But if it's a scoutplane-carrying cruiser, that's not much better. The only thing to the southeast is my shipping lane to SouthPac. Traffic there is a lot thinner than it was a few days ago, but there is at least one convoy there that I'd really rather not get sunk. China My southern army trying to take lightly-guarded bases ran into an unexpected surprise: level 4 forts at Swatow. So even though I outnumber them significantly, and a lot of those troops are broken from a recent defeat, I'd need more troops to take this--combat engineers in particular. Oh well. Guam Added this as an afterthought. He's been bombing Guam pretty consistently with Nells/Betties and Kates from probably the Soryu. Today it was just Nells. Soryu may be on the move. __________________ Last edited by Molon Labe; 06-25-21 at 10:17 AM.

06-25-21, 11:39 AM	#6
Threadfin Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	When I was posting yesterday I thought about the Mark 10s and wondered if your S-boats had them or if other fleet boats might be sailing with them or mixed loads. And good to see your S-boats aren't just running aground all over the place haha. Two sinkings is good, and that's the place I'd be sending them too. I hope one of your boats can pick off a CV. We need more good news from the war front __________________ What? Behind the rabbit?

06-26-21, 01:11 AM	#8
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	2 January 1942 And you thought he was dangerous in a Buffalo... Dutch East Indies One of the PT squadrons trying to get out of Kendari got trapped between land and an approaching landing force, including a heavy cruiser. This squadron was already down to 3 boats, now it's just one. Kendari withstood the enemy's assault, but with reduced fortifications. I have yet to reacquire the CVLBG. Malaya He sent over 100 bombers to hit my army units on the Johore Road. His army would later attack and turn their withdrawal into rout. They're trying to recover at Malacca now. My first ace, G.L. Hesketh of the New Zealand No. 488 Squadron, had the honor of being the first to fly the Hurricane into combat in the Pacific theatre. The enemy showed up to bomb the airfield and port facilities at Singapore. Hesketh claimed two zeroes and two Sally bombers before his plane was damaged too badly to continue fighting. The only other victory was a Sally brought down by AA. Hesketh is now a double-ace with 11 kills. The raid bounced a few more bombs off the Repulse, which is apparently destined to live in drydock for the rest of the war. Philippines A sweep over Clark cost me a pair each of P-40s and P-35s. My B-17s went to Takao this time to bomb the port and once again were ineffective. CENTPAC A change in tactics for the enemy today--they sent in 2 minesweepers to try to clear a path to Pearl, and then bombarded the base with a battleship at long range. The minesweepers were shot to hell by coastal defense guns. But the battleship hurt, sending shrapnel into about two dozen planes all over Hickam Field and causing significant human casualties. No sign yet of the maybe-Taiyo near my shipping lanes. Burma A sub-battalion sized unit took over Mergui, an empty base on the Thai-Burma border and the top of the Malayan peninsula. __________________