Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Skybird]

If this is "the" offensive, then we will learn about huge logistical acivity in the Ukrainians' rear, and supply trucks moving forward with fuel and ammo. Reports on that currently seem to miss.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...] Plus they have started already weeks ago to close every breach in the minefields by artillery delivered mines and also scattering anti personnel mines into their tank obstacles and anti-tank minefields [...]

Which is why I wrote:
Best way to overcome it now is to place troops in the back of the fortified russian lines, like Germany did with the Maginot line.
Drop paratroops and attack them from the rear. AFAIK night vision equipment is scarce on the russian side.
Another idea would be an artillery barrage starting close behind the enemy positions and then roll it back; but of course Ukraine does not have the ammo for this.
Still, scattering mines without knowing the positions the ukrainian battlezones will look like Laos when this war is over.

edit spoke with some german officers and as has been posted before somewhere here they criticize the ukrainian tactics, lacking combined operations despite them having trained exactly that.
Don't know what is going on, maybe it takes more time to let it sink in(?)

[mapuc]

Did you know that Ukraine could have kicked Russia out of Ukraine last Autumn.
Reason to why they stopped in Luhansk and in Kherson region was:

1. Lack of ammo
2. Logistic could not keep up with the speed of the advancing forces.

The speed of todays offensive the logistic has no problem keeping up with it

Markus

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Which is why I wrote:
Best way to overcome it now is to place troops in the back of the fortified russian lines, like Germany did with the Maginot line.
Drop paratroops and attack them from the rear. AFAIK night vision equipment is scarce on the russian side.

If you think of Air Cav on helicpoters, they would get shot out of the sky when crossing the front, the Russians have both air superioity on that region and heavy missile density, both ATGMs and manpads/SAMs. If you think of people hanging on parachutes, their transport planes again again are object of Russian missile fire, and yo can trnapdort only a very thin and oight force that way becasue the Ukrianian air force, including trnapsdorts,m is extremely seriously decimated. Bringing troops into the rear of the Russians, the Ukrainians showed the possibly only way: small special commandos and very small troop contingents crossing the frontline under stealth.
This is not Market Garden!

edit spoke with some german officers and as has been posted before somewhere here they criticize the ukrainian tactics, lacking combined operations despite them having trained exactly that.
Don't know what is going on, maybe it takes more time to let it sink in(?)

I posted it, yes. The BW complained about the trained lower rank soldiers get back to Ukraine and then come under command of higher ranks that then run Sovjet doctrine commando regimes again, or trained troops climb up the ranks and then get their own commando, but are then forced to fall into the bigger picture and again must ignore their traning and instead practice Swvjet battle drill doctrine. And the treianignt iem was very shoret anyway. The bulk of the ukrianian army seems to be no longer - or neve rhas been - capable to practice NATO's combined arms doctrine, were things must be orchestrated fast and simultaneously and aggressively and troops, and artillery and air power all work together at the same time. The criticism is that the ukrainians do everything one step after the other, and one unit by one unit. The units of all armed forces in locaiton and the variosu weapon branches are not interlocked, their actions are not coordinated fpr simultaneously. The exact opposite of combined arms. Its high arts of warfare, obviously it cannot be learned by a whole army in just a few weeks.





It was the BILD that reported it first.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Did you know that Ukraine could have kicked Russia out of Ukraine last Autumn.
Reason to why they stopped in Luhansk and in Kherson region was:

1. Lack of ammo
2. Logistic could not keep up with the speed of the advancing forces.

The speed of todays offensive the logistic has no problem keeping up with it

Markus

No, that is exaggerated, but true is that they for no reaosn that is apparent to the eye let the Russians escape over a damaged bvriudge at Cherson, and that in the east the Russian resisten ce was so intense that a planned third attack vector south of Charkiv, which tghey took, ha dto be broklen off due to too high own losses.



But they were not near to driving Russia out, completely.



The called-off third attack is what got almost no coverage in the media, although it was a first serious indicator that not everything the Russians set up was incompetent and stupid. This Ukrainian attack they spoiled already back then - before they had started to establish profound ground defences.


Ukrianain field commanders say that what the Russian now do and set up in stiff resistence is extremely professionally orchestrated and competent., and that they are extremely quick now in identifiying even inividual vehicles moving inside firing range and take them out with artillery. They use very many observation drones. They react very fast. Ukrainians do not take them lightly... if they ever did...


Not all Russian officers are dumb. And those who survive, gain experience.

[mapuc]

And I who thought that Russia had air supremacy inside their protection zone and the same when it comes to Ukraine.

Even during this time Russian fighter jet do not fly over Ukraines protection zones.

Protection zone=areas where they have SAM's and other anti air system to protect their troops and fighter jet and helicopters.

I could of course be wrong about this...Just a thought.

Markus

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No, that is exaggerated, but true is that they for no reaosn that is apparent to the eye let the Russians escape over a damaged bvriudge at Cherson, and that in the east the Russian resisten ce was so intense that a planned third attack vector south of Charkiv, which tghey took, ha dto be broklen off due to too high own losses.



But they were not near to driving Russia out, completely.



The called-off third attack is what got almost no coverage in the media, although it was a first serious indicator that not everything the Russians set up was incompetent and stupid. This Ukrainian attack they spoiled already back then - before they had started to establish profound ground defences.


Ukrianain field commanders say that what the Russian now do and set up in stiff resistence is extremely professionally orchestrated and competent., and that they are extremely quick now in identifiying even inividual vehicles moving inside firing range and take them out with artillery. They use very many observation drones. They react very fast. Ukrainians do not take them lightly... if they ever did...


Not all Russian officers are dumb. And those who survive, gain experience.

It must be me who has remembered things wrong.

Markus

[Catfish]

there also was a post or link that blamed the Nordstream II blow-up on the russians instead of Ukraine, some german(?) TV team had visited a woman connected to thiy yacht in Russia to question her but she acted quite aggressively.
Anyone remember this or has a link, in the 'net all talk about Ukraine (or England )

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

there also was a post or link that blamed the Nordstream II blow-up on the russians instead of Ukraine, some german(?) TV team had visited a woman connected to thiy yacht in Russia to question her but she acted quite aggressively.
Anyone remember this or has a link, in the 'net all talk about Ukraine (or England )

That again was a post by me.

They're all mine!


It was the so far latest reported twitch on the story.

[Catfish]

Yes you own it all and all else and still WHERE IS THIS POST?

[Skybird]

In the old Ukraine thread. Probably.

[Rockstar]

the term "rapid collapse" is being spoken in the russian telegram channels.....

[ET2SN]

Long term, Ukraine has to be careful with how they wrap up this war.

This sounds like a lot of contradictions, but one year after the fighting stops Ukraine will still share a border with Russia and Belarus.

Being a member of NATO won't really stop the "gray attacks" (ie, cyber attacks) and we also have to understand that there are plenty of Russians who moved to Ukraine and Ukrainians who moved to Russia since the 1990's.

In other words, its really complicated.


Meaning:




Don't judge a Ukrainian victory by German, British, US, or European standards.

[Skybird]

Tokmak is what they are after. That is north-east of Melitopol. Its still unclear where exactly they stand, but the situation must be in flux anyway, and after a first push south it was said yesterday that the Russians had pushed them back a bit again. Two steps foirward, one step back, so to speak. Thats okay if they can repeat that often enough.



BBC posted this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66323354




FOCUS:
In demarcation from Russia, the Orthodox Church of Ukraine has decided to transition to the modern calendar. The New Julian calendar, which affects fixed holidays such as Christmas and is calculated to be the same as the Gregorian calendar in use today until the year 2800, is to be introduced for the new church year starting Sept. 1, according to the decision of the synod of bishops. The Russian Orthodox Church follows the Julian calendar until today.