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#1 |
Planesman
![]() Join Date: Mar 2002
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Is there any way to make the AI retreat once it suffers a bad hit - they seem to keep sailing on mindlessly into oblivion.
Thanks, Mountbatten |
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#2 |
Watch
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 28
Downloads: 7
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GlowwormGuy,
If there is a way to inject some intelligence into the AI controlled ships I haven't found it yet. This applies to both friendly as well as enemy ships. For a while I have been working on a Surigao Straight scenario. Thus far I have the US left flank cruisers (3 CA, 2 CL), the US right flank cruisers (1 CA, 2 CL) and the US battle line (6 BB) against the IJN units (1 BB, 1 CA and 1 DD). All units start at their historical 0340 positions and on their historical courses. No matter what orders I give the IJN units the IJN BB always conducts a suicidal Banzai charge up the straight. In addition, it always picks out my ship for a target! Hey, what's wrong with the other guys?!!! Even with reduced muzzle velocities and no radar the Japanese BB still has unbelievable accuracy at night and at over 16,000 yards. Curiously, the Japanese CA and DD seem to choose one of two courses of action - either turn around and high tail it back down the straight, or attempt to go northeast between Hibuson Island and Dinegat Island and avoid my forces. Who knows what is in the Japanese AI files?! The American AI ships have their own bizarre tactics. Both the right flank cruisers and the battle line turn directly for the Japanese BB and head straight for him. What's really stupid is that the battle line is set up crossing the Japanese T (US on an easterly course, IJN heading due north), yet the idiots turn in succession (i.e., follow the leader) to the south, thus only allowing the lead ship (USS West Virginia) a clear shot, and then only with its forward turrets. Arggghhhh!
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\"Captain, the good news is the flooding put out the fire...\" |
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#3 |
Planesman
![]() Join Date: Mar 2002
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I've observed that as well - that they concentrate fire on you when they can. Another weird thing I've seen them do is their refusal to react when under fire - I was playing with my hypothetical 20-inch gunned super BB vs the Japanese fleet (Siam Gulf 1941 that never was) and firing at them from behind and they just kept steaming on their merry way without even scattering to find out who was dropping 20 inch shells on them.
Sigh! Another weird thing is I programmed 10 count em 10 massive Luftwaffe groups to try and wipe out my modified Dido cruiser as she steamed from London to Edinburgh and they just buzz around within gun range and NEVER drop a bomb! Does changing the ROE have any sort of effect? Like force them to skirmish at long range or something? I hate these Banzai to the death stupid tactics. Good to hear that Surigao strait's still up and running... ah for a Fuso to shell! Mountbatten |
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#4 |
Watch
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 28
Downloads: 7
Uploads: 0
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GlowwormGuy,
I haven't played too much with large air groups, but I have found (at least for single aircraft) that the standard Order x.x = ROE,ALL,UNLIMITED,DESTROY,FULL will cause aircraft to attack. I also set the group's unit type to the type of aircraft, such as: UnitType = TORPEDO (or BOMBER, FIGHTER, or DIVEBOMBER) KLH's scenario editing notes has a lot of good info. Another annoying thing I have noticed with the AI is that, in a night action, they never illuminate with starshell, even if the unit has them. With Aegis like accuracy I guess they don't have to. In my Surigao Straight scenario I modified NBBFuso as follows: 1. Changed Model = NBBNagato to Model = NBBHaruna (there seems to something wrong with the Nagato model). Yes, this deletes 1/3 of the main battery, but as the ship charges head on at the Americans, the forward firing armament is the same. 2. Deleted the 5.5" guns. The historical 14 - 6" guns are enough to deal with! 3. Deleted all radars. If a surface search radar is present the sim assumes the ship has a top of the line fire control radar. Even so, the Yamashiro has astonishing gunnery in the sim!
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\"Captain, the good news is the flooding put out the fire...\" |
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#5 |
Planesman
![]() Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 187
Downloads: 89
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Velly Intellesting CBDR-san!! Looking forward to your finished Surigao Strait!
I've tried the ROEs and the destroy unlimited all with them but they're being stupid... well back to the drawing board I guess. Best wishes, Mountbatten |
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#6 |
Planesman
![]() Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 199
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try adding this order to enemy groups.
Order1.2 = ATTACK,1,DEFAULT,GROUP instead of blithely staying on course and allowing me to lob dozens of torps at them the enemy formation proactively reacts to my presence as soon as i am detected. they change course head towards and open fire without waiting for ME to attack. in this case the "1" referred to my group of dd. in the case of multiple friendly formations try Order1.2 = ATTACK,1,2,3,4,DEFAULT,GROUP presumably the ai will attack whichever is nearby. as far as the enemy focusing its gunfire - enemy formations tend to target whoever shot them first. doesnt matter if its a pt boat or a bb. nor does it matter if your in a pt boat and they are getting destroyed by a bb ! (great threat assessment ai huh ? ) as long as you shot them before your friendly bb, odds are YOU will be target. a dum dc trick in general is to send a controlled ship in to draw fire have it race off out of range and then you attack with the rest of your forces while the enemy is still busy firing at a distant target. LIMITED, RECON, STEALTHY,UNLIMITED DESTROY, HARASS, HIT_AND_RUN, REPULSE, SHADOW some of those may help as well... |
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#7 |
Watch
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 28
Downloads: 7
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Palindromeria,
Thanks for the orders suggestions - I'll give them a try. GlowwormGuy, Here's the Surigao Straight scenario as it currently stands. Nothing fancy, and definitely not a fair fight! The player is set up on flagship USS Louisville at the head of the left flank cruisers. Any suggestions for improving this scenario are welcvome. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; [SCENARIO] Date = 19441025 Time = 0336 Duration = 120 TimeOut = 0 Type = TYPE A Major = 10 Minor = 5 Origin = 125.416667,10.500000 InitialZoom = 5 Weather = CLEAR DrawOvlyText = TRUE TitleEnglish = Surigao Straight TitleGerman = Uebungsmission 1 ;;; Objectives ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;; Bases ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;; Radio Messages ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;; Multi ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;; Sides ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; [SIDE1] Alignment = ALLIES Name = Allies Doctrine = American [SIDE2] Alignment = AXIS Name = Axis Doctrine = Japanese ;;; Groups ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; [GROUP1] Commander = HUMAN Type = SHIPSQUADRON UnitType = Cruiser Side = 1 Name = Left Flank Cruisers Nationality = American WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW [GROUP1.1] Type = SHIPDIVISION UnitType = DESTROYER Name = Your Ship WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW [GROUP2] Type = SHIPDIVISION UnitType = Battleship Side = 1 Name = Battleline Nationality = American Order1.1 = Speed,Telegraph,TWO_THIRDS,-1,-1 Order1.2 = Formation, COLUMN,910,6 Order1.3 = ROE,CAPITAL,RECON,DESTROY,BEST,FULL,-1,-1 Order1.4 = WayPt2,125.433333,10.578497 Order2.1 = WayPt2,125.483333,10.55 Order3.1 = WayPt2,125.383333,10.55 WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW [GROUP3] Type = SHIPDIVISION UnitType = Cruiser Side = 1 Name = Right Flank Cruisers Nationality = American Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,TWO_THIRDS,-1,-1 Order1.2 = Formation, ECHELON_RIGHT,910,6 Order1.3 = ROE,ALL,UNLIMITED,DESTROY,BEST,FULL,-1,-1 [GROUP4] Type = SHIPDIVISION UnitType = Battleship Side = 2 Name = Yamashiro Nationality = Japanese Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,FLANK,-1,-1 Order1.2 = ROE,TRANSPORTS,RECON,DESTROY,EVADE,FULL-1,-1 WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW [GROUP5] Type = SHIPDIVISION UnitType = Cruiser Side = 2 Name = CA Escort Nationality = Japanese Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,FLANK,-1,-1 Order1.2 = ROE,ALL,LIMITED,DESTROY,EVADE,FULL,-1,-1 WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW [GROUP6] Type = SHIPDIVISION UnitType = Destroyer Side = 2 Name = DD Escort Nationality = Japanese Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,FLANK,-1,-1 Order1.2 = ROE,ALL,UNLIMITED,DESTROY,EVADE,FULL,-1,-1 WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW ;;; Units ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; [UNIT1] Group = 1.1 TypeAbrev = CA Class = NCANorthampton Name = CA28 Louisville Control = HUMAN Flag = TRUE Guide = TRUE Location = 125.333333,10.529599 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT2] Group = 1.1 TypeAbrev = CA Class = NCAPortland Name = CA33 Portland Location = 125.329159,10.529744 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT3] Group = 1.1 TypeAbrev = CA Class = NCANewOrleans Name = CA36 Minneapolis Location = 125.324985,10.529888 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT4] Group = 1.1 TypeAbrev = CL Class = NCLCleveland Name = CL58 Denver Location = 125.320811,10.530032 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT5] Group = 1.1 TypeAbrev = CL Class = NCLCleveland Name = CL56 Columbia Location = 125.316637,10.530176 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT6] Group = 2 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBMaryland Name = West Virginia Location = 125.319757,10.578497 Flag = TRUE Guide = TRUE Orientation = 090 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT7] Group = 2 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBMaryland Name = Maryland Location = 125.311402,10.578497 Orientation = 090 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT8] Group = 2 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBNewMexico Name = Missippi Location = 125.303047,10.578497 Orientation = 090 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT9] Group = 2 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBNewMexico Name = Tennessee Location = 125.294692,10.578497 Orientation = 090 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT10] Group = 2 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBNewMexico Name = California Location = 125.286337,10.578497 Orientation = 090 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT11] Group = 2 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBTexas Name = Pennsylvania Location = 125.277983,10.578497 Orientation = 090 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT12] Group = 3 TypeAbrev = CA Class = NCANorfolk Name = Shropshire Location = 125.267747,10.530426 Flag = TRUE Guide = TRUE Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT13] Group = 3 TypeAbrev = CL Class = NCLBrooklyn Name = Boise Location = 125.264693,10.527607 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT14] Group = 3 TypeAbrev = CL Class = NCLBrooklyn Name = Phoenix Location = 125.261638,10.524788 Orientation = 092 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT15] Group = 4 TypeAbrev = BB Class = NBBFuso Name = Yamashiro Location = 125.386529,10.345238 Flag = TRUE Guide = TRUE Orientation = 0 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT Damage = 0.50 [UNIT16] Group = 5 TypeAbrev = CA Class = NCAMogami Name = Mogami Location = 125.380519,10.333333 Flag = TRUE Guide = TRUE Orientation = 0 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT [UNIT17] Group = 6 TypeAbrev = DD Class = NDDShiratsuyu Name = Shigure Location = 125.386529,10.333333 Flag = TRUE Guide = TRUE Orientation = 0 Captain = 80 Crew = 80 BoilersHot = TRUE IconName = NSHIP Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT
__________________
\"Captain, the good news is the flooding put out the fire...\" |
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#8 |
Planesman
![]() Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 187
Downloads: 89
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Looks neat, I'll try it out. Perhaps, to even out the odds a bit you could throw in Shima's force as a random reinforcement following close at hand or even joining Nishimura - and to make it really nasty, what about throwing in Kurita flanking you from the rear? As a random reinforcement of course...
That should even out the odds a bit. Cheers, Mountbatten |
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