UK Politics Thread

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by JU_88

that combo of accusation and assertation is being parroted but just about every ruling party and every opposition in every democracy world over.
both are very empty and meaningless.


'We are turning the tide?' uh compared to who Boris? in what way? and how exactly did you messure /arrive at that that rosey eyed view the situation?


'Serial incompetence?' Does Starmer say what he would have done differently? and can he prove or messure his own competeance in that situation (without the benefit of hindsight.) No of course not.


empty meaningless words from them both.

Originally Posted by Skybird

In other words: life-long career politicians demonstrating their excellence in what matters most in politics: babbling, deflecting, and demonstrating the versatility of Teflon in social behaviour and communication.

Pretty much so

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Haulage firms are warning of "significant gaps" in UK border plans for the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December.

Eight groups warned ministers that if issues were not addressed, the supply chain "will be severely disrupted".

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said the government will work to ensure the "best systems are in place".

The government has also given itself powers to build temporary lorry parks in England without local approval.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54021421

[Jimbuna]

Tony Abbott has said he is looking forward to contributing his "expertise" in global commerce to his new role as a trade adviser to the UK government.

The former Australian PM was appointed to the unpaid role on Friday, despite criticism over his past comments on women, LGBT people and climate change.

Mr Abbott, who led Australia from 2013-15, posted on Twitter that he was "only too keen" to help the UK.

But Labour said he should have been disqualified from the role.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54041414

[Jimbuna]

It looks like next week is the time to decide whether to pee or get off the pot.......eventually.

Dominic Raab accused the EU of 'double standards' today as he warned that the UK will walk away from post-Brexit trade talks rather than back down.

The Foreign Secretary said a deal was 'there for the taking', but insisted Brussels must recognise that discussions this week are a 'moment of reckoning'.

He pledged that the government will not 'haggle away' fishing rights or agree to be bound by EU rules just to get an agreement across the line.

The tough stance came after the UK's chief negotiator Lord Frost cautioned counterpart Michel Barnier that the UK will not 'blink' this time, unlike when Theresa May was in No10.

In an exclusive interview with The Mail on Sunday, Lord Frost said there was no prospect of forcing Britain to become a 'client state' of Brussels.

The comments will heighten gloom about a breakthrough, with Downing Street insiders now putting the chance of an agreement at just 30-40 per cent.

Speaking to Sky News this morning, Mr Raab said the government wanted to strike a deal with the EU, but it could not be based on 'double standards'.

'All the UK is asking for it to be treated like any other country in free trade negotiations,' he said.

'No other country would accept being bound by or controlled by the EU's rules.'

Mr Raab said there were 'really only two bones of contention left' - on fishing rights and whether the UK had to bow to Brussels edicts.

'We hope that the EU as a whole will really understand that this week is the moment of reckoning,' Mr Raab said.

'There is a deal to be done. We are only asking to be treated just as the EU would expect.

'We can't allow, as we leave the EU, for the EU to control our rules.'

He added: 'The only question is why we should be treated with such double standards.'

'There is a good deal there for the EU, we'd love to do that free trade agreement and if not we'll fall back on Australian-style rules.

'I think this week is an important moment for the EU to really effectively recognise that those two point of principles are not something we can just haggle away – they are the very reasons we are leaving the EU, but we want a positive relationship and the arm of friendship and goodwill is extended.'

Mr Barnier is due to arrive in London for the crunch round of talks on Tuesday.

The two sides have just weeks to finalise any legally binding agreement that needs to be in force by December 31 if a No Deal Brexit is to be avoided.

In the interview – his first since being appointed in January – Lord Frost said the EU needed to realise that Mr Johnson's Government was adopting a more steely and determined approach than Mrs May's.

He said: 'We came in after a Government and negotiating team that had blinked and had its bluff called at critical moments and the EU had learned not to take our word seriously.

'So a lot of what we are trying to do this year is to get them to realise that we mean what we say and they should take our position seriously.'

To demonstrate the Government's readiness to accept No Deal, the Prime Minister has created a No 10 Transition Hub, with officials across key departments said to be 'working at pace' to prepare to trade without arrangements in place.

The unit, boasting 'handpicked' officials from across Whitehall, will work with Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove, who has led the Government's work on No Deal preparations since last year.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...id=mailsignout

[Catfish]

(Boris Johnson 2013)

“Let us suppose you are losing an argument. The facts are overwhelmingly against you, and the more people focus on the reality the worse it is for you and your case. Your best bet in these circumstances is to perform a manoeuvre that a great campaigner describes as ‘throwing a dead cat on the table, mate’.

“That is because there is one thing that is absolutely certain about throwing a dead cat on the dining room table – and I don’t mean that people will be outraged, alarmed, disgusted. That is true, but irrelevant. The key point, says my Australian friend, is that everyone will shout ‘Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!’; in other words they will be talking about the dead cat, the thing you want them to talk about, and they will not be talking about the issue that has been causing you so much grief.”

[JU_88]

Yeah oldest dirty trick in the book, works best when said politician/leader as the wieght of their opposostions supporters in the media/press to make a big fuss over said dead cat.

We partially have ourselves to blame for lapping it up.
That said it is funny when a dead cat is thrown but doesnt stick.
(it can back fire hilariously sometimes)


Cant say i care much about Abbot, Will Abbots 'trade advice' be good or bad? Who cares right? he said the mean thing!...though we trade with Trump who also says mean things... and we trade with Jinping who actually do mean things.
I can be white/black/man/woman/straight/LGBT and accept some people some where will think and maybe even say disparaging things about my identity. And I can even accept some of those people will attain positions of power - which can make me feel very uncomfortable, but it can be a cruel world and always feeling comfortable is not a right, because that is basically asking for utopia.
What really matters to me is whether or not they are able and willing to act /legislate on those messed up beliefs or not.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear that Boris is trying to increase pressure on the EU ahead of tomorrows negotiations.

I have one or two reservations about that and wonder if it might be best for both parties to agree on a position of failure to agree.

Ministers are planning new legislation that would override a key part of last year's EU withdrawal agreement.

The move could change the nature of new Northern Ireland customs arrangements which were intended to prevent the return of checks at the border with the Irish Republic.

Downing Street said it was a standby plan in case trade talks fail.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier accused the UK of wanting the "best of both worlds" on trade.

Although the UK formally left the EU in January, it has continued to follow rules set in Brussels during a transition period - which ends in December - while discussions over a long-term trade agreement continue.

Another round of talks - the eighth - begins on Tuesday, aimed at securing a deal to allow companies in the EU and UK to trade without taxes or customs checks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54051933

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

It would appear that Boris is trying to increase pressure on the EU ahead of tomorrows negotiations. [...]

That is the dead cat on the table.
But it seems some are not willing to only speak about the cat.

Brexit talks 'null and void' if divorce deal not implemented: Irish PM

Head of UK government's legal department quits over Johnson Brexit deal threat: FT

I have one or two reservations about that and wonder if it might be best for both parties to agree on a position of failure to agree.

I agree, stop the charade. After all no deal is what Cummings, Farage and the brexiters wanted all the time. At least i only see them and their opinions, everywhere and again and again in the media.

[Jimbuna]

Sooooo...today is the big day.

Wonder what will be the leading story on the tv news channels tonight

[JU_88]

brexwhat? oh yeah that :P
Arranging the Deck Chairs on the Titanic at this point, Both UK and EU are probably going down the ****ter for the next few years, regardless. (Division, Covid, recession etc)
In my last year of living in London, moving to a quiet little mountain town in Spain, cant wait.

[Skybird]

.................................................. .........My negotiation position is already clear!



Der Tagesspiegel

[mapuc]

If a miracle should happen there will be a deal

As it is now and as I understand it...they are very far from a deal and we are approaching the finish line fast.

In other places I have read other people discussing this.

In common most of them was negative to UK and their demands.

Can't remember all the text in these comments -but it made me remember some episode of WWII

England was a leading factor in world politics before WWII, they have now in the end of WWII lost this position.

Markus

[Skybird]

Corona has completly messed up my thinking about whether it is wise or not to brexit, but as it stands, its a fact. I just cannot form an opinion anymore whetehr or not I think in the long run it will do more good than bad for the UK - Corona has completey reshuffled the cards.


As for the present, I think Johnson never wanted a deal. With the threat to break international treaties in a mysterious manner only he seem to have understood, he bluffs the EU. The bluff aims at making the EU walk away first, so that he can get no deal Brexit but can also say: "it was not me walking away, the EU did end it."



He probably will get his way this or in another way. From next year on we will then start to learn what comes from this Brexit in Corona's very new world.

[Catfish]

“This bill will also give the UK government new spending powers to drive our economic recovery from COVID-19 and support businesses and communities right across the UK,” said Michael Gove, a cabinet minister.

“No longer will unelected EU bodies be spending our money on our behalf. These new spending powers will mean that these decisions will now be made in the UK, focus on UK priorities and be accountable to the UK parliament and people of the UK.”
(Reuters, september 9th)

They will never admit that they lied all the time.
On the other hand, will there be anyone to believe them anymore?


edit: strange, no news.. all is from yesterday
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54081211

So no consent from Scotland to BJ's plans?