Afghanistan deadline - Page 17

3catcircus · 08-15-21, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Maybe they will learn how to master some or most of these weapon system, but with every gear it break down. So they have to educate themselves in repairing these system too

Markus

Iran is still flying F-14s the US sold them before the fall of the Shah...

Arlo · 08-15-21, 06:57 PM

How many spare parts for them did they buy or are they cannibalizing to maintain an 'Air Force' of two or three?

3catcircus · 08-15-21, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlo

How many spare parts for them did they buy or are they cannibalizing to maintain an 'Air Force' of two or three?

Enough...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...-flying-111786

Otto Harkaman · 08-16-21, 05:50 AM

I don't like Biden but...

I think the real perpetrators of this whole debacle are Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld

Skybird · 08-16-21, 07:06 AM

^ I absolutely think the same.

Also, I think Biden is absolutely correct whe he said:
"One more year, or five more years, of US military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country."
When almost two decades of training and billions of investment do not make the army fight for the state whose uniform its soldiers wear - then why on Earth can anyone assume that another generation or two of Western soldiers staying there would make then the difference that it has not after 20 years? Wetsern trainers say since always that the training and the motivation and loyalty of Afghan recruits is a bad joke.

Also, Biden is against this war and sees it as stupid since at least 2010, if not earlier, as Richard Holbrook recalls. His memories of a meeting he had with Biden in 2010 and the rejecting words Biden had for Afghanistan, currently make the round in the German press. Biden'S decision now is no short cut, but marks the end point of a view he seems to have hold since at least a decade.

"I was the fourth President to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistan -- two Republicans, two Democrats," Bidne just recently said. "I would not, and will not, pass this war onto a fifth."

Again, full points scored. I dont like Biden either, but he simply is right, and he takes it upon himself to just bear the anger of the world for this decision and the to be expected chaos it brings. Old man that he is, his time is ticking away anyway and he has nothing to lose. Maybe that is why he made this decision, and another younger one would have not. The latter would have had more too lose in career perspectives.

On the other hand Bidne recently said he could not imagien the Taleban to overrun the country after the withdrawl within the next 90 to 180 days. Either intel told him nonsense, or he ignored intel and thought he knew it better.

A holy saint he is not in all this. But by the end of the day I think the decision was necessary - and overdue. The mistakes making it necessary have been made by very other people many, many years ago. Not the withdrawel is wrong - the whole war, the chnage of msision 16 years ago were wrong.

China is the elephant in the room. The US cannot afford anymore to split its ressources on a million of big and small bases around the whole planet, most of them being undefendable against a detemined enemy on same eye level with the US. He who wants to keep and defend everything, will lose everything.

3catcircus · 08-16-21, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

I don't like Biden but...

I think the real perpetrators of this whole debacle are Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

^ I absolutely think the same.

Also, I think Biden is absolutely correct whe he said:
"One more year, or five more years, of US military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country."
When almost two decades of training and billions of investment do not make the army fight for the state whose uniform its soldiers wear - then why on Earth can anyone assume that another generation or two of Western soldiers staying there would make then the difference that it has not after 20 years? Wetsern trainers say since always that the training and the motivation and loyalty of Afghan recruits is a bad joke.

Also, Biden is against this war and sees it as stupid since at least 2010, if not earlier, as Richard Holbrook recalls. His memories of a meeting he had with Biden in 2010 and the rejecting words Biden had for Afghanistan, currently make the round in the German press. Biden'S decision now is no short cut, but marks the end point of a view he seems to have hold since at least a decade.

"I was the fourth President to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistan -- two Republicans, two Democrats," Bidne just recently said. "I would not, and will not, pass this war onto a fifth."

Again, full points scored. I dont like Biden either, but he simply is right, and he takes it upon himself to just bear the anger of the world for this decision and the to be expected chaos it brings. Old man that he is, his time is ticking away anyway and he has nothing to lose. Maybe that is why he made this decision, and another younger one would have not. The latter would have had more too lose in career perspectives.

On the other hand Bidne recently said he could not imagien the Taleban to overrun the country after the withdrawl within the next 90 to 180 days. Either intel told him nonsense, or he ignored intel and thought he knew it better.

A holy saint he is not in all this. But by the end of the day I think the decision was necessary - and overdue. The mistakes making it necessary have been made by very other people many, many years ago. Not the withdrawel is wrong - the whole war, the chnage of msision 16 years ago were wrong.

China is the elephant in the room. The US cannot afford anymore to split its ressources on a million of big and small bases around the whole planet, most of them being undefendable against a detemined enemy on same eye level with the US. He who wants to keep and defend everything, will lose everything.

You're both insane. Biden owns this disaster. Doesn't matter who or how we got into Afghanistan. When Trump negotiated the exit, Bagram was off-limits - keeping it open for US use. He negotiated a drawdown and exit that was going to be orderly and organized. Instead, that waterhead Biden and his entire staff are AWOL as desperate Afghanis fall to their deaths while clinging onto the landing gear of a fleeing C-17A stuffed with 800 people, and we have embassy staff evacuated via helo in an utterly chaotic situation.

Otto Harkaman · 08-16-21, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

You're both insane.

“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

Skybird · 08-16-21, 08:42 AM

As the seeds, so the harvest.

Arlo · 08-16-21, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

You're both insane. Biden owns this disaster. Doesn't matter who or how we got into Afghanistan. (Blah blah blah ... the greatness of Trump etc.etc.)

I'm sure the Kurds are just as big a fan of Trump as you are. Ahem.

MaDef · 08-16-21, 08:55 AM

You all seem to have forgotten the original reason for starting that war. As soon as Bin Laden was confirmed dead, the U.S. should have packed up and went home.

Arlo · 08-16-21, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDef

You all seem to have forgotten the original reason for starting that war. As soon as Bin Laden was confirmed dead, the U.S. should have packed up and went home.

Not to mention, but I will, that it didn't actually require an all out war to carry out that mission.

AVGWarhawk · 08-16-21, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDef

You all seem to have forgotten the original reason for starting that war. As soon as Bin Laden was confirmed dead, the U.S. should have packed up and went home.

Bin Laden is/was not the only terrorist on the list. Not to mention the recruiting of individuals to terrorism is continually ongoing. The Taliban is always a presence as we see with the swiftness of taking over Afghanistan.

Arlo · 08-16-21, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Bin Laden is/was not the only terrorist on the list. Not to mention the recruiting of individuals to terrorism is continually ongoing. The Taliban is always a presence as we see with the swiftness of taking over Afghanistan.

You seem to be acknowledging, however, that trying to fight a 'war on terrorism' accomplished nothing. In your estimate, are there fewer or more U.S. hating terrorists in the world? If more, what do you think caused that?

mapuc · 08-16-21, 09:25 AM

Did I remember it wrongfully !? I seem to recall that USA would assist the Afghan by bombing the enemy(Taliban)

If I'm correct, then my question is...has there been any bombings of Taliban groundforces ?

Markus

AVGWarhawk · 08-16-21, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlo

You seem to be acknowledging, however, that trying to fight a 'war on terrorism' accomplished nothing. In your estimate, are there fewer or more U.S. hating terrorists in the world? If more, what do you think caused that?

How do you really know the war on terrorism has accomplished nothing? Do you really know what plans or people that have been stopped perpetrating mass killings, bombing and the like? If we don't really know then we can not state emphatically the war on terrorism was for nothing.

It was more than just a war on terrorism. The idea was to help Afghanistan establish their own government, military and economy. It is yet another failure as we have seen in Vietnam.

Certainly more hate the USA but we continue to send $$$ overseas like candy. Personally I think the USA should stop continually policing the world.

08-15-21, 06:57 PM	#242
Arlo The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 214 Uploads: 0	How many spare parts for them did they buy or are they cannibalizing to maintain an 'Air Force' of two or three? __________________ -Arlo

08-16-21, 05:50 AM	#244
Otto Harkaman Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Lexington, Kentucky Posts: 915 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I don't like Biden but... I think the real perpetrators of this whole debacle are Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld __________________ "If you want to know the age of the Earth, look upon the sea in a storm." -Joseph Conrad USS Pompano (SS-181) https://www.oneternalpatrol.com/uss-pompano-181.htm

08-16-21, 07:06 AM	#245
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,534 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	^ I absolutely think the same. Also, I think Biden is absolutely correct whe he said: "One more year, or five more years, of US military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country." When almost two decades of training and billions of investment do not make the army fight for the state whose uniform its soldiers wear - then why on Earth can anyone assume that another generation or two of Western soldiers staying there would make then the difference that it has not after 20 years? Wetsern trainers say since always that the training and the motivation and loyalty of Afghan recruits is a bad joke. Also, Biden is against this war and sees it as stupid since at least 2010, if not earlier, as Richard Holbrook recalls. His memories of a meeting he had with Biden in 2010 and the rejecting words Biden had for Afghanistan, currently make the round in the German press. Biden'S decision now is no short cut, but marks the end point of a view he seems to have hold since at least a decade. "I was the fourth President to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistan -- two Republicans, two Democrats," Bidne just recently said. "I would not, and will not, pass this war onto a fifth." Again, full points scored. I dont like Biden either, but he simply is right, and he takes it upon himself to just bear the anger of the world for this decision and the to be expected chaos it brings. Old man that he is, his time is ticking away anyway and he has nothing to lose. Maybe that is why he made this decision, and another younger one would have not. The latter would have had more too lose in career perspectives. On the other hand Bidne recently said he could not imagien the Taleban to overrun the country after the withdrawl within the next 90 to 180 days. Either intel told him nonsense, or he ignored intel and thought he knew it better. A holy saint he is not in all this. But by the end of the day I think the decision was necessary - and overdue. The mistakes making it necessary have been made by very other people many, many years ago. Not the withdrawel is wrong - the whole war, the chnage of msision 16 years ago were wrong. China is the elephant in the room. The US cannot afford anymore to split its ressources on a million of big and small bases around the whole planet, most of them being undefendable against a detemined enemy on same eye level with the US. He who wants to keep and defend everything, will lose everything. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-16-21, 08:42 AM	#248
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,534 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	As the seeds, so the harvest. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-16-21, 09:25 AM	#254
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,922 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Did I remember it wrongfully !? I seem to recall that USA would assist the Afghan by bombing the enemy(Taliban) If I'm correct, then my question is...has there been any bombings of Taliban groundforces ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

08-16-21, 08:55 AM	#250
MaDef Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,046 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You all seem to have forgotten the original reason for starting that war. As soon as Bin Laden was confirmed dead, the U.S. should have packed up and went home.