Wuhan virus 2020

[August]

Beware of the medical advice being given on this forum:

Taking vitamin D amid coronavirus: Doctors warn against 'megadoses' of the dietary supplement


The ongoing coronavirus pandemic has some looking for ways to keep their immune systems in tip-top shape, and there’s evidence that vitamin D can help with exactly that. But taking too much of this dietary supplement can be dangerous, doctors warned in a paper published earlier this month in the British Medical Journal.
Medical professionals already know that vitamin D helps to strengthen bones, and the supplement has also been said to regulate cellular functions throughout the body. And in relation to the novel coronavirus, there are some trials underway to study the effectiveness of vitamin D on hospitalized COVID-19 patients, such as one in Spain.
To date, however, there are no clinical studies that show the effectiveness of vitamin D, or any other supplements or vitamins, to treat the coronavirus.

[Jimbuna]

Greece is to open up to tourists from 29 countries in two weeks - but not those travelling from the UK.

There is strong criticism of President Trump's decision to end the US relationship with the World Health Organization.

Germany strongly criticised the "disappointing" decision, while one US senator said it could hurt efforts to develop a coronavirus vaccine.

India has recorded its biggest single day jump in cases with nearly 8,000 new infections and 265 deaths.

More than a third of all cases are in Maharashtra, one of India's richest states.

But despite the rising number of covid-19 cases, the government has been easing restrictions.

UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak says the government is "in a position" to ease lockdown despite warnings the infection level remains high.

But scientific advisers to the government have warned of the risk of lifting the lockdown in England too soon.

More on that highest single-day surge of new infections in Brazil. There are 26,928 confirmed new cases - bringing the total to 465,166.

Around 400 German managers, workers and their families are returning to China on charter flights, as multinational companies begin to open up again.

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

I was made aware of August havign posted something on Vit D. Due to this I even unignored him temporarily for the purpose of reading just that.

No link provided, just hear-say posted, that was the firts thing I noticed.

To beocme a biot more specific on what I said and why. The deicisve criterion is not how much Vit-D you consumme, but the concetration of its post-metabolic substance in the blood, measured in nmol. Various medical institutions and offices vary widely in how much is good and how much is not good. In the apst twenty yearsd, the trend ha sbeen to inbcrease the recomme3nde dlevbels, doubling even tripoling them. The focus was mainly on bone issues, in rceent years has also incolpdued more genral health issues. Clear it seems to be that beyond a certain level further consummation of Vit-D can become useless, maybe even counterprouctive. We know for exmapke that the risk for breaking bones rises if you have too little Vit-D. Thgew risk lowers if you have "idela" levels of Vit-D. And the risks rises again oif you have too much Vit-D.

In 2017 por 2018 the American Endocrine Society of the US had a publicaiton where they even tolerated a daily conusmmaiton dose of 10 thosjan d IEs as potzentially harmelss. The reocmmendaiton of the European Food security Agency EFSA reocmmended a daily maximum of 4 thosuand IEs only. The American Endocrine Society has chnaged its re3ocmmendaitons two or trhee time susbstantially over the past decade, reflecting that the knowledge gained about Vit-D is in flow.

A consensus seems to be that toxcity is given at levels of around 250 nmol/l . The recommended level that seems to form a consenus currently is in the range of 60-120, with 30-60 now beign seen as deficient, and below 30 nmol/l causing medically dangerous deficient.

In this context above I remind of the recent study done by Indonesian scientists who examined the cases of 780 infected residents in European caretaking facilities. Half of them had a level of 60nmol/l, of these 4% died. 27% had levels of 30-60 nmol/l, of these 88% died. 23% had levels below 30 nmol/l, of these 99% died.

The knoweldge on Vit-D is in flow, we do not know all aboiut it already, but we can - I think at least - mark some cornerstones for recommendations. That are:
- the older, classical recommendations of less than 1000 IE per day are too conservative and too shy.

- The mega-dose recommendations of 50 or even 100 thousand IEs per day most likely do no additional good, probbaly can even be harmful over long term future perspective with regard to calcium-related realth issues and metabolic dysfunctions.

- From a certain dose oin Vitmaine K2 should be taken toegther with Vitamine D2. However I a unable to fidn a consensus what that ciritcla value is. I set it for mysedlf in the range of 4-5 thousand IE, because whenever I hear or read doctors and publications m,enmtioniung tolerbale or recommendable doses of less than 5000 IE, I completgely miss any mentioning of the need for Vit-K2 to counter the risk for a process of "Hyperkalzämie" taking place.

The truth for an ideal dose thus is likely to be found in the rnage between 1000 and 50000 IE. I halved it for security concerns, and then reduced it further, which brought my maximum dose to the renage of those sometimes published by medical organisations as for exmaple the Ecndiocoire Society in the US.

That Vit-D levels iuntgeract with the immune system is known since decades, though not all specific detials are knbown for sure. It has also been observed that Vit-D levels interacted in any way with other, earlier verisons of Coirona virusses: Sars and Mers. We now observe a correlation once again with Covid-19 detahs and severity os casue of ifnections, and Vitmaine-D levels, and we have seen that rpeorted in amny reports now. That is no boudble-blind clinical trial, i know I kinow. But it is a very seriouzs, repetzivie, hioghly correlated observaiton that has been verified severla times allaq croiss the world now. Onoly a stupid would ignore that.

Vit-D doe snot heal Coivid-19,m as August claims it doe snot. But then, I never have claimed it does. I talked of shifting chnace sin your favour. We currently only have social rules (distancing, masks) and our immune system bertween us and the virus. A storng immune system ver ylikely helps to fight off the virus by gifting us with a less severe cause of the disease in case we get infected. Wehther it prevent sinfeciton int he first I do not know. I have some faith howver that a good concetration of Vit-D helps my immune systejm to shift chacnes in my faovur for a less severew cause of the disease. this - AND NOTHING ELSE - is what it has been aboiut from my first posting on Vit-D on. And nothing else says any of the videos of Dr. Campbell on Vitmaine D, of which he has done three or four now.

I include three publications that illustrate how the debate on Vitmaine D goes up and ndown, and reomnndations reahc high and then reyhc down again over thze past 10 years. The first two are from the Americna Endocrine Society, severla years apart, it shows how they alter their own assessment on how much tio consume and why. Itsa numbers-heavy, it helps if you have some knowledge on how to read and interpret such statsistics anylsis stuff. The third I just give as a hint that I am aware of the trend to trying to reduce recommendations as well. A link for publication of high-set reocmemnndaitons I spare, since the web is full of such higher-.rreachign recokemndaitons and thus it is easy to find. I try to sail a safe course in the middle between the extremes. My channel's sailing limits reach from 1000 to 50000, I started at 20000, reduced to 10000, and now will reduce further to 5000. The real dangerous ground I think begins at doses above 100000, with clear toxciety being giuven at aorund 200-250 thosuand IE per day: you then start to see imminent symptoms from a severly intoxicated brain: disorientaiton, hallucinations, dizziness, tactile misperperceptions etc etc. two-hundred-thousand. Five or ten thousand. Thats quite a huge difference.

I once again remind of that the reocmmendaiton of natioanlö food agency intenraitonally vary very widely, with soemn states even suppoomenting Vit.D to food in supermarkets, and othe rnatiosn strictly banning to do so. There is no one internaitopnal cobnesus. There is just the profit interests of the insudtry: both supplement producers and pharmaceutical producers, and both are antagonstic. And one thing is clear: pharmaceutical producers HATE healthy populations, health is bad for their business. Their lobby in politics is extrmely strong. Supplement producer shave no polticla lobby, only the option to abuse media with m,anipulative advetrsiisjngt dressed as scientific studies.

The consumer is left alone while needing to navigate his life's ways between both frontlines.

Novembre 2014: https://endocrinenews.endocrine.org/...n-d-is-enough/

January 2020: https://endocrinenews.endocrine.org/...ugh-is-enough/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680954/


P.S.

The Indonesian study I mentioned: https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-21211/v1


P.P.S.
Vitmaine gets stored in the body in reservoirs where it lasts for two and a half week (19 days). This is to help the bbody getting over days with less or no sun expoure. You therefore do not need ti take Vitmane D every day like other, real Vitamines. You cna take it in higher dose once per week, lets say, and divide the pill'sdose by 7 to get the avergae daily dose you then calculate with. One 20,000 IE pill per week means you take short of 3,000 IE per day. That way you must not care for it every day.

[Skybird]

And form one decade ago: surprisngly high recommended doses (several thousand IEs) but then also coupled with warnings against hypercalcemia and

hypercalciuria.

http://content.guidelinecentral.com/...e/get/pdf/4061

That data maybe today is considered a bit dated.


I say once again: take Vit K2 if you tak ehigher doises, say more than 2000 IE (just my laymen guess). From levels of lets just say 10 thousand on and over long time, not just to fuill up your reserves for a week and then reducing again, have your blood serum levels monitored. I would not see the need to go this high and keep that dose for all time to come. I filled up my reserve sinc eI strongly assume I was deficitary, and then halved, and now halve again.

[Jimbuna]

NHS England has announced 146 new deaths of people who tested positive for Covid-19, bringing the total number of confirmed reported deaths in hospitals in England to 26,529.

In Scotland, another 22 people who tested positive have died, taking the total deaths to 2,353.

A further 14 people have died after testing positive for coronavirus in Wales, bringing the total number of deaths to 1,331, according to Public Health Wales.
The total number of confirmed cases in Wales stands at 13,913 - an increase of 86.

In Northern Ireland, there has been one further Covid-19 related death since Friday recorded by its Department of Health, bringing total deaths there to 522.

Three months after closing, the Tower of Pisa in Italy has opened up to tourists again.

The US Supreme Court has rejected an emergency appeal against California's limits on the numbers of worshippers allowed to attend religious services.

Gibraltar has banned tourists from touching its famous Barbary monkeys, out of fear that they could catch coronavirus.

The 2020 Formula 1 season is set to get under way with races in Austria on 5 and 12 July.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

After a near three-month shutdown, the UK government authorises the return of competitive sport on 1 June.

Experts have warned that lifting restrictions is "risky" before cases come down.

There is strong criticism of President Trump's decision to end the US relationship with the World Health Organization.

Germany says the decision is "disappointing", while a US senator warns it could hurt efforts to develop a coronavirus vaccine.

India has recorded its biggest single day jump in cases with nearly 8,000 new infections and 265 deaths.

But despite the rising number of covid-19 cases, the government has been easing restrictions.

Italy's Leaning Tower of Pisa reopens to tourists after months of being shut.

[Platapus]

The dog park is finally open where I live. Had a good time. About half the people were wearing masks. None of the dogs were.


You know how independent dogs can be.

[skidman]

Yesterday evening: First night out since the end of February! Had some beers and vodka shots with three friends from three different households (If you try to find logic coherence in the "number of people/number of household-rules" in force right now it can make your brain hurt). We sat at an table outside the cafe, had to write down our personal information, and put on our masks when going inside to "wash our hands".

Have to say I really, really enjoyed it.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by skidman

(If you try to find logic coherence in the "number of people/number of household-rules" in force right now it can make your brain hurt).

Probabilities. Three meeting persons living togetehr in one flat pose less a risk of infecting each other and foreigners alike, than three meeting persons living in three different flats/households. The latter offer longer, more numerous and diverse contact chains.

Problem is that in Germany 16 federal states have 16 different sets of different rules now. But the regional dukes wanted it so, and the central government has no saying in all this.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Probabilities. Three meeting persons living togetehr in one flat pose less a risk of infecting each other and foreigners alike, than three meeting persons living in three different flats/households. The latter offer longer, more numerous and diverse contact chains.

Problem is that in Germany 16 federal states have 16 different sets of different rules now. But the regional dukes wanted it so, and the central government has no saying in all this.

Finally a picture from Germany by Sky that we can understand ... Seems a little confusing to me that 16 states can not agree with the central government.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Finally a picture from Germany by Sky that we can understand ... Seems a little confusing to me that 16 states can not agree with the central government.

Germany is a state of federal republican structure like the US. After all it were the allies dictating the style of the new German constitutional order, last but not least to prevent a strong central government ever taking over the whole nation once again. The authority of federal states and their political leaders more or less compare to what you see in the US. The nchamber system is sloghtly different, maybe the German federal states are seated even stronger against the central government than their American counterparts. Severla things that the fedceral minister of health wanted to do during the early stage of the pandemic, was just blocked down and "killed" by the states. Merkel as well is not above the minisiter presidents. As a matter of fact she got dismantled of her appealing authority in this pandemic some weeks ago, and de facto has no say anymore. Before, the state'S agreement with the chancellor's office was just voluntary, not mandatory.

German federalism is totally different to for example France with its not federalist, but extremely centralist organisation. Thats probabvly also the reason why the French so often can outmanouver the Germans although the Germans are financially and economically significantly stronger. This relative weakness of Germany was wanted by design. For example the French did not agree to reunificaiton as long as the Germans did not accept the premature and early implementation of the Euro and the giving-up of the D-Mark: same logic at work.