Russia’s Vladimir Putin just got one step closer to being "president" for life - Page 2

ikalugin · 03-11-20, 10:05 AM

Well, it is moving forward now, with the upper house supporting the bill.

Aktungbby · 03-11-20, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I've said it many times on this forum over the years: Putin = Democratically elected dictator.

THERE'S NO disPUTIN' THAT!

Onkel Neal · 03-11-20, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I've said it many times on this forum over the years: Putin = Democratically elected dictator.

You are right, Jim. Though I'm not so sure how legit their elections are. Can any intelligent electorate vote the same guy into office this many times without the use of fraud?

The only thing Russian Joe can say to this is, "Oh yeah? Look who you have running, can you say it's any better?"

I can only hang my head.

Jimbuna · 03-11-20, 10:44 AM

I doubt Russian democracy is anything like that of the majority of countries in the west.

mapuc · 03-11-20, 11:33 AM

Say the same here to our Russians friends

He (Putin) is your elected President and therefore your headache

Markus

Skybird · 03-11-20, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

You are right, Jim. Though I'm not so sure how legit their elections are. Can any intelligent electorate vote the same guy into office this many times without the use of fraud?

The only thing Russian Joe can say to this is, "Oh yeah? Look who you have running, can you say it's any better?"

I can only hang my head.

Either Stalin or Ulbricht once said something like: "It must look as if it were democratic, but we must make sure that we stay in absolute control."

Who said that Russia ever was "democratic"? Was the German Democratic Republic "democratic"?

Russia has no tradition of freedom and liberal society, quite the opposite, it has a tradition of authoritarianism, and that also is true for many of those places that were its former South-Eastern provinces during the USSR's times, and now are independent states. They are practically all authoritarian.

And some do not even try to look democratic.

And people do not object as long as the economy is doing well enough so that it keeps their family's boat afloat.

I recall two lines of dialogue from some TV series, I think, I do not recall what series it was. One person got "accused" of always being so pessimistic. The reply was: "No, I am not pessimistic. I am Russian."

Rockstar · 03-11-20, 05:03 PM

I'm always amazed at the behavior of the public here in the U.S. Even though we dont have a dictatorship. Many always seem to give one man all the attention and expectation he be able with the wave of a hand fix everything. Even though that's not his job. If Putin were to run for dictator in the U.S. he would probably win, sometimes I think people crave it. Thankfully our system of government makes that hard to do.

Skybird · 03-11-20, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I'm always amazed at the behavior of the public here in the U.S. Even though we dont have a dictatorship. Many always seem to give one man all the attention and expectation he be able with the wave of a hand fix everything. Even though that's not his job. If Putin were to run for dictator in the U.S. he would probably win, sometimes I think people crave it. Thankfully our system of government makes that hard to do.

I always had kind of the impression that Americans chased away the king - and then realised they miss the glory of the royal show from having one.

And in the end, tribal drives are deeply rooted in us. We want leaders, Führers. Many are willing to compromise their freedoms and hand over their self-responsibility in exchnage for an easier life. I would even claim that globally this mindset is absolutely dominating. Just look at the many blossoming religious and political totalitarian and leadership cults. It starts with the attempt to bribe a theistic deity with prayers so that it gulfils the praying a free wish, and ends with presidnets beign more or less democratically elected and then allowing them to be equipped with almost monarchic, absolutistic powers. The love and craving for a Führer, by far is not just a German trait.

Catfish · 03-12-20, 09:37 AM

Not entirely OT here, an ukrainian view

https://empr.media/opinion/analytics...onal-mistakes/

"While the former Ambassador Mr McFaul believes that Russia could have taken another, brighter path Bukovsky has always argued that a Putinesque Russian revanchism was inevitable since the base evils of the former Soviet Union in Russia were never rooted out."

Platapus · 03-12-20, 04:24 PM

I am very happy that it takes a lot of effort and time to change our constitution.

That's how it should be

nikimcbee · 03-12-20, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I doubt Russian democracy is anything like that of the majority of countries in the west.

No doubt 'Merican meddling in their elections. Maybe HRC could run as VP there?

Catfish · 03-13-20, 06:33 AM

And.. what a surprise.. "Every Russian regional parliament backs changes allowing Putin to extend rule - RIA"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKBN21011O

"Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of Russia’s lower house of parliament, told lawmakers on Thursday to rally behind Vladimir Putin against what he said was a foreign campaign to discredit the constitutional reforms"

Of course.

ikalugin · 03-13-20, 10:23 AM

I mean that campaighn does exist, so he is not wrong. Back in 2014 we also went for US influence networks, particularly those supporting regional ethnic nationalists.

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 03-16-20, 11:59 PM

The Russian Constitutional Court, unsurprisingly, approves the thing. To be fair to them, though, a lot of it was phrased in such a way that would be hard to reject. For example, the thing about Constitutional Court judges being firable required the joint work of the President and the Federation Council and it is a bit hard for them to argue that two branches of government cannot unite, following procedures, to fire them (effectively they will be immune).

The least justified part, to my mind, was the open approval to restrict freedom of speech on secession, because no Article 13 and Article 29 cannot be stretched that far and further, it is one thing to say the ECHR acted ultra vires on the Anchugov v Russia affair because it concerned an article already present and written unambiguously. It is another thing to add new material to the Constitution and expect that to roll as well. Though to be fair, the ECHR blew the shot by choosing to fight over a little issue like the voting rights of two murderers rather than the big picture.

ikalugin · 03-17-20, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenden

Well, I don`t understand how people can stand this

The reform bundles this stuff with the social reforms.

03-11-20, 10:05 AM	#16
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Well, it is moving forward now, with the upper house supporting the bill. __________________ Grumpy as always.

03-11-20, 10:44 AM	#19
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I doubt Russian democracy is anything like that of the majority of countries in the west. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-11-20, 05:03 PM	#22
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,887 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I'm always amazed at the behavior of the public here in the U.S. Even though we dont have a dictatorship. Many always seem to give one man all the attention and expectation he be able with the wave of a hand fix everything. Even though that's not his job. If Putin were to run for dictator in the U.S. he would probably win, sometimes I think people crave it. Thankfully our system of government makes that hard to do. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

03-12-20, 09:37 AM	#24
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,898 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Not entirely OT here, an ukrainian view https://empr.media/opinion/analytics...onal-mistakes/ "While the former Ambassador Mr McFaul believes that Russia could have taken another, brighter path Bukovsky has always argued that a Putinesque Russian revanchism was inevitable since the base evils of the former Soviet Union in Russia were never rooted out." __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-12-20, 04:24 PM	#25
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,973 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I am very happy that it takes a lot of effort and time to change our constitution. That's how it should be __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-11-20, 11:33 AM	#20
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,959 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Say the same here to our Russians friends He (Putin) is your elected President and therefore your headache Markus

03-13-20, 06:33 AM	#27
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,898 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	And.. what a surprise.. "Every Russian regional parliament backs changes allowing Putin to extend rule - RIA" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKBN21011O "Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of Russia’s lower house of parliament, told lawmakers on Thursday to rally behind Vladimir Putin against what he said was a foreign campaign to discredit the constitutional reforms" Of course. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-13-20, 10:23 AM	#28
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I mean that campaighn does exist, so he is not wrong. Back in 2014 we also went for US influence networks, particularly those supporting regional ethnic nationalists. __________________ Grumpy as always.

03-16-20, 11:59 PM	#29
Kazuaki Shimazaki II Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The Russian Constitutional Court, unsurprisingly, approves the thing. To be fair to them, though, a lot of it was phrased in such a way that would be hard to reject. For example, the thing about Constitutional Court judges being firable required the joint work of the President and the Federation Council and it is a bit hard for them to argue that two branches of government cannot unite, following procedures, to fire them (effectively they will be immune). The least justified part, to my mind, was the open approval to restrict freedom of speech on secession, because no Article 13 and Article 29 cannot be stretched that far and further, it is one thing to say the ECHR acted ultra vires on the Anchugov v Russia affair because it concerned an article already present and written unambiguously. It is another thing to add new material to the Constitution and expect that to roll as well. Though to be fair, the ECHR blew the shot by choosing to fight over a little issue like the voting rights of two murderers rather than the big picture.