UK Politics Thread

[MGR1]

What I find most interesting about this latest row is that, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any mention of this internal market bill's effects on the devolution settlement with NI, Scotland and Wales etc in any of the UK wide news outlets.

As the main focus has been the bill's effects on the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU have any of the England-only news outlets mentioned the devolution side of it? Up here in Scotland we've been getting both sides of the bill's effect.

Scotland:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-53423452

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54065391

Wales:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54072660

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54090332

Northern Ireland:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54099832

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54050248

Mike.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm well aware of that and apologise if you thought that is what I was trying to allude to.

Dont be funny, no need to excuse for anything, since no harm was done by anyone!

[JU_88]

At this point, Ive kind of given up all reading about Brexit, given the current state of the world, it all seems abit academic now. I suppose I will sit back and see what unfolds and reserve judgement until then.
Not that Ill be living in the Uk much longer....


Can't say my future expectations of either the Europian Union or Post Brexit Britian are particullarly high.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Can't say my future expectations of either the Europian Union or Post Brexit Britian are particullarly high.

Yep

[Jimbuna]

A good representation on the subject of trade in layman's terms.

Brexit: What trade deals has the UK done so far?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by JU_88

At this point, Ive kind of given up all reading about Brexit, given the current state of the world, it all seems abit academic now. I suppose I will sit back and see what unfolds and reserve judgement until then.
Not that Ill be living in the Uk much longer....

Can't say my future expectations of either the Europian Union or Post Brexit Britian are particullarly high.

Why don't you "live in the Uk much longer"?
With the "UK" (if it remains the UK) i am not sure when it comes to trade, we will see. Four years for a trade with Japan, ok, and no advantage compared to be in the EU towards Japan.
Regarding the EU i am a bit underwhelmed when it comes to absolute and unconditional rescue of shipwrecked fugitives.. when it comes to freedom of travel, working, trade exchange of science and international discussions i do not see any better worldwide.
Main problem are nationalistic and xenophobic tencencies in governments of Romania and Poland, but you can hardly blame this on the EU.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Not about to start arguing with you on the subject matter but hasn't much of the world forgiven your country for all the treaties that have been broken over the past hundred years or so?

You asked Skybird, but ...

Forgiving a country, or forgiving citizens of today that have nothing to do with what happened in the past?
Can anyone feel responsible or guilty for what was done two generations ago by humans he never met or knew? Surely not.
Should anyone try to never let such things never happen again? Absolutely.

But do you ask yourself whether colonies, slaves or whatever xour glorious Empire suppressed and killed forgive "England"? Which England? The 'nation'? The England of today?

[JU_88]

Catfish, we move to spain next year. Nothing to do with brexit. It was always the plan. My wife is spanish. We bought a place over there And with our son turning 11. We want him starting secondary in spain.
I think is said my peice on the EU 100 times on here already. Some good. Some bad.
Ill continue to live with in it. Ill let you know that goes.
I dont have crystal ball but i dont see it returning to the pre 2008 glory days. Whether it survives as an institution? All bets are off.

[mapuc]

Even though this is an international forum and this is the UK Politics thread I wonder why any of my European friends hasn't started an EU thread.

EU has a huge influence on us European whether we like it or not.

I don't know how much influence the EU will have on Britain after Jan. 1 2021.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Regarding the EU i am a bit underwhelmed when it comes to rejecting to rescue foreign people who show up with several thousand dollars to pay criminal smugglers to make them bringing them into artifically created naval emergency so that they can morally blackmail Europe to rescue them from self-induced emergency.

Corrected that for you.

Originally Posted by Catfish

When it comes to freedom of travel

Its a given. You can ask any time. You may need permission by your hosting country or country you transit through whether they want to let you in or not, which is okay, since it is the locals' home, not yours. If I want to drive to spaoin or onto the Balkans, I can expect to not get blocked.

I mean you do not let just every stranger strolling by right into your house, too - or do you?

working,

You can ask anywhere for a job to learn whether you are needed and wanted. I did it over a dozen times in my life, and always got a job for a slogn as I wanted it. Jobs I did not want to do, I did not ask for.

trade

It seems the EU has a problem with leaving trade as that: trade, and nothing more. They use trade to missionize and to enforce their own rule and control on thigns that have nothign nto do with trade.

exchange of science and international discussions

Who hinders whom? Business secrets and military secrets excluded, of course, which is only rational.I read studies on Covid 19 from all over the world every week, several of them.

Main problem are nationalistic and xenophobic tencencies in governments of Romania and Poland, but you can hardly blame this on the EU

Its last but not least Germany's lonely and uncommunicated decision form 2015 and the EU's batant ignoration of so many people's rejection to getting ever more foreign migrants from the ME and Africa impose donto them that ahs amde populations across Europe become so hostile to EU mirgaiton policies. And as Seehofer explkained in the Budnestag today and implied further, niobody wnats a repeation of 2015 loss of control and rise/further strengthening of the AfD.


I recently read that in France, every day 1-2 chuches get defamed, set on fire, vandalized. 40-50 churches per year are givne up and get lost or rededicated (they are not owned by the catholic church, but the French communities). But every 10-14 days, a new mosque gets opened.



And when you say you do no like that, you get called a xenophobe or nationalist.

[skidman]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Regarding the EU i am a bit underwhelmed when it comes to absolute and unconditional rescue of shipwrecked fugitives..

And lets not forget that illegal and inhuman Frontex push-back-operations have become a frequent conduct inwardly applauded by racist idiots who boast about their alleged cultural supremacy, but in fact are the scum of the earth.

when it comes to freedom of travel, working, trade exchange of science and international discussions i do not see any better worldwide.

I'd like to add environmental standards, collective rules for occupational health and safety, free choice of residence, common rules for product liability, warranty claims and consumer protection.

As a true European citizen who crosses borders (NL/BEL/GER) several times a day, delivering service for our European customers and partners and used to live in the Netherlands for 11 years I am deeply convinced the EU is the best thing that has ever happened to the continent. It's a shame that some dwarfish brains will never get it.

Main problem are nationalistic and xenophobic tencencies in governments of Romania and Poland, but you can hardly blame this on the EU.

No you can't. But the EU has to develop legal procedures to not only sanction countries like Hungary, that constantly violate civil rights, but to actually throw them out.

[JU_88]

The Eu wont throw anyone out, as its completley counter productive to its vision and long term goals.
For the Eu that's continous expansion, and here (when the likes of Verhofstadt speak of these things,) the Darker side of the Eu is visible.


Those with nationalistic and xenophobic tencencies do push out some appalling rhetoric, but conflating all EU skeptisism with nationalistic and xenophobic tencencies is also appalling rhetoric.

The Eu is complicated beast and has been benefit and a detrement to different people in many different ways, people expressing cherry picked, one sided views on it, is nothing but dogmactic projection.

"I cant really be bothered to read up on it beyond my media diet of confirmation bias, but i feel this has been a good/bad thing for me overall, so it must be a good/bad thing for everyone." - is not a very respectable polticial decision making process, but unfortunatley its the most natural one.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You asked Skybird, but ...

Forgiving a country, or forgiving citizens of today that have nothing to do with what happened in the past?
Can anyone feel responsible or guilty for what was done two generations ago by humans he never met or knew? Surely not.
Should anyone try to never let such things never happen again? Absolutely.

But do you ask yourself whether colonies, slaves or whatever xour glorious Empire suppressed and killed forgive "England"? Which England? The 'nation'? The England of today?

I thought the winking smiley at the end said it all

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson has urged Conservative MPs to back his plan to override part of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement.

In a Zoom call with about 250 of them, he said the party must not return to "miserable squabbling" over Europe.

The EU has warned the UK it could face legal action if it does not ditch controversial elements of the Internal Market Bill by the end of the month.

And a Tory MP has proposed an amendment to the bill, which would affect trade between Britain and Northern Ireland.

Meanwhile, the European Parliament has threatened to scupper any UK-EU trade deal if the bill becomes UK law.

The two sides have less than five weeks to agree a deal before Mr Johnson's 15 October deadline - after which he says he is prepared to "walk away".

Informal talks are due to resume on Monday, with the next official round of talks - the ninth since March - starting in Brussels on 28 September.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54127214

This could be the first sign of a fracture in the Tories

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I thought the winking smiley at the end said it all

Seems i was in a bad mood, as it usually happens if someone mentions brexit, Trump or other natural disasters