Japan to release contaminated Fukushima water into sea after treatment

Catfish · 04-13-21, 01:42 AM

Good that reactors are secure, can never explode and never "release radioactivity" in the environment (read: in your place)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...-idUSKBN2BZ2U3

Seriously, how do they want to contain this at all?

- The contaminated earth has been "removed" over square miles, so where is it now? You cannot "decontaminate" radioactivity as any schoolboy will tell you.
You can maybe (if you are lucky, and not in Chernobyl of course) decontaminate an area, by moving the radiating stuff somewhere else, where it will then still radiate and contaminate another place then for millenia to come.

In Fukushima, all the contaminated steel and iron and fuel rods have been dumped into so-called "cooling ponds" open to the atmosphere, where they will continue to "cool" (read: radiate) for some hundred thousand years to come.

The water of those ponds will now be released into the sea, saying it would be "filtered" beforehand.

1. Can any physicist please explain how you want to "filter" radioactive water?

2. Then fresh water will have to be added to the "cooling" ponds. Which will be contaminated and have to be released again in a few years. And so on and so on.

Who do they think they are fooling?

Dowly · 04-13-21, 02:51 AM

What the article fails to mention is that they plan to release the water slowly over the next 30 or so years, and that's after it's already been diluted.

Catfish · 04-13-21, 03:02 AM

It will be "diluted" alright, so what does that mean other than spreading it over a larger region, or time. 30 years do not completely "decontaminate" it either with some of the substances' radioactive half life. So they filter it, what happens with the filters?
And what do they intend to do with the steel, iron, and so on. Only thing is dumping it somewhere and hope for the best.
Diluting and pumping it into the sea over the next 30 years is also not a solution, but probably the only thing that can be done anyway after the "event".

I might add i do not see any change in the coastal defenses towards another tsunami, and the other plant is still working.

"Another large earthquake, magnitude 7.3, struck Feb. 13, again off the coast of the Fukushima reactor complex, and the reported 30 seconds of terror was followed by14 aftershocks up to magnitude 5.

The quake was severe enough that its Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco) operators and federal regulators suspect it caused additional damage to reactors 1 and 3 where cooling water levels fell sharply, the Associated Press reported. The Feb. 13 quake was felt in Tokyo 150 miles away. Japan’s meteorological agency said it was believed to be an aftershock of the record 2011 quake.
At a Feb. 15 meeting, government regulators said the quake had probably worsened existing earthquake damage in reactors 1 and 3 or broken open new cracks causing the cooling water level drop, the AP said."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/e...dioactive-soil

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...er-radioactive

Skybird · 04-13-21, 06:01 AM

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; but the dose makes it clear that a thing is not a poison." - Paracelsus.

The world cannot go without nuclear powerplants, but it should be switched to the latest technology levels indeed. Its not as if technology has stopped advancing. Only in Germany it has. which is a pity, becasue German reatcors once were considered to be the sefest in the world. Until that Tsunami in Asia set Germany under water so high as to reaching up to the medulla oblongata and cutting the central nervous system off the brain.

Skybird · 04-13-21, 06:33 AM

And from the - far left-leaning - Süddeutsche Zeitung:

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...hima-1.5263211

Quote:

In an intact nuclear power plant, the cooling water runs in a closed circuit. Put simply, its heat is used to generate steam, which drives the turbines to generate electricity. But in Fukushima Daiichi the reactor pressure vessels in units one, two and three are broken. There is no longer a cycle. After coming into contact with the highly radioactive scrap from the reactors, the water runs through various leaks into the basement of the reactor building and the adjacent machine houses.

This contaminated water has to go somewhere. It is pumped out and some of it is used again for cooling. The rest has to be stored: up to 60,000 cubic meters of water are added every year. Some of this water can be purified, including with the ALPS (Advanced Liquid Processing System) system. 62 different radionuclides - types of atoms that are radioactive due to their unstable nucleus - can be extracted from the water by this system. Only tritium cannot be extracted from the water on a large industrial scale.

But tritium is such a low-emitting radionuclide that experts do not find it to be a cause for concern. According to information from the Japanese government, 30 percent of the cooling water stored in Fukushima Daiichi is treated in such a way that it falls below the limit values for all nuclides except for tritium. The Japanese only want to channel this water into the water.

The International Atomic Energy Agency IAEA is accompanying the process. Its general director Rafael Grossi says: The solution with cooling water in the sea is not new. "There is no scandal here." The US government praised Japan for "weighing options and effects" and "appears to have taken an approach in line with globally recognized nuclear safety standards".

Catfish · 04-13-21, 06:59 AM

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung is rather "liberal" than "left", it just does not equal your point of view, and from this point everything must be politically 'left'

It is not only Tritium though, and what exactly is being done with the filters after the water has been "cleaned"?
As your link provided: 30 percent of the water is being "cleaned, that leaves 70 percent i guess. And the whole water cooling system has cracks everywhere, so water flows through the ruins, all the time since 2011, and is being exchanged with sea water.
As they just found out the central off limits section is still too "hot" to come near it, except for robots.

Commander Wallace · 04-13-21, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Good that reactors are secure, can never explode and never "release radioactivity" in the environment (read: in your place)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...-idUSKBN2BZ2U3

Seriously, how do they want to contain this at all?

- The contaminated earth has been "removed" over square miles, so where is it now? You cannot "decontaminate" radioactivity as any schoolboy will tell you.
You can maybe (if you are lucky, and not in Chernobyl of course) decontaminate an area, by moving the radiating stuff somewhere else, where it will then still radiate and contaminate another place then for millenia to come.

In Fukushima, all the contaminated steel and iron and fuel rods have been dumped into so-called "cooling ponds" open to the atmosphere, where they will continue to "cool" (read: radiate) for some hundred thousand years to come.

The water of those ponds will now be released into the sea, saying it would be "filtered" beforehand.

1. Can any physicist please explain how you want to "filter" radioactive water?

2. Then fresh water will have to be added to the "cooling" ponds. Which will be contaminated and have to be released again in a few years. And so on and so on.

Who do they think they are fooling?

Great breakdown Catfish. Considering the half life of the radioactively contaminated materials, I seriously doubt anything can be filtered out. These are of course the dangers in harnessing and releasing nature, in this case Uranium and Plutonium among other elements. Another reason why extreme care is needed and then, not even that is enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune.
On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?

Godzilla isn't anything to mess with.

Consider this my entry in today's music thread, Jim.

Jimbuna · 04-13-21, 06:04 AM

Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune.

On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?

Rhodes · 04-13-21, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?

My thoughts after hearing the news was more, why all the trouble, just call Godzilla and he will take care of the radiation. Possibly would drink the all thing!

nikimcbee · 04-13-21, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune.

On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?

You stole my Godzilla joke/reference.

nikimcbee · 04-13-21, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Great breakdown Catfish. Considering the half life of the radioactively contaminated materials, I seriously doubt anything can be filtered out. These are of course the dangers in harnessing and releasing nature, in this case Uranium and Plutonium among other elements. Another reason why extreme care is needed and then, not even that is enough.

Godzilla isn't anything to mess with.

Consider this my entry in today's music thread, Jim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhodes

My thoughts after hearing the news was more, why all the trouble, just call Godzilla and he will take care of the radiation. Possibly would drink the all thing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

You stole my Godzilla joke/reference.

Man am I late to the Gojira dance.

Good thing I'm East Coast now. I can't imagine crabbing now.

04-13-21, 01:42 AM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Japan to release contaminated Fukushima water into sea after treatment Good that reactors are secure, can never explode and never "release radioactivity" in the environment (read: in your place) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...-idUSKBN2BZ2U3 Seriously, how do they want to contain this at all? - The contaminated earth has been "removed" over square miles, so where is it now? You cannot "decontaminate" radioactivity as any schoolboy will tell you. You can maybe (if you are lucky, and not in Chernobyl of course) decontaminate an area, by moving the radiating stuff somewhere else, where it will then still radiate and contaminate another place then for millenia to come. In Fukushima, all the contaminated steel and iron and fuel rods have been dumped into so-called "cooling ponds" open to the atmosphere, where they will continue to "cool" (read: radiate) for some hundred thousand years to come. The water of those ponds will now be released into the sea, saying it would be "filtered" beforehand. 1. Can any physicist please explain how you want to "filter" radioactive water? 2. Then fresh water will have to be added to the "cooling" ponds. Which will be contaminated and have to be released again in a few years. And so on and so on. Who do they think they are fooling? __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

04-13-21, 03:02 AM	#3
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	It will be "diluted" alright, so what does that mean other than spreading it over a larger region, or time. 30 years do not completely "decontaminate" it either with some of the substances' radioactive half life. So they filter it, what happens with the filters? And what do they intend to do with the steel, iron, and so on. Only thing is dumping it somewhere and hope for the best. Diluting and pumping it into the sea over the next 30 years is also not a solution, but probably the only thing that can be done anyway after the "event". I might add i do not see any change in the coastal defenses towards another tsunami, and the other plant is still working. "Another large earthquake, magnitude 7.3, struck Feb. 13, again off the coast of the Fukushima reactor complex, and the reported 30 seconds of terror was followed by14 aftershocks up to magnitude 5. The quake was severe enough that its Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco) operators and federal regulators suspect it caused additional damage to reactors 1 and 3 where cooling water levels fell sharply, the Associated Press reported. The Feb. 13 quake was felt in Tokyo 150 miles away. Japan’s meteorological agency said it was believed to be an aftershock of the record 2011 quake. At a Feb. 15 meeting, government regulators said the quake had probably worsened existing earthquake damage in reactors 1 and 3 or broken open new cracks causing the cooling water level drop, the AP said." https://www.nationalgeographic.com/e...dioactive-soil https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...er-radioactive __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 04-13-21 at 03:24 AM.*

04-13-21, 06:01 AM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,517 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; but the dose makes it clear that a thing is not a poison." - Paracelsus. The world cannot go without nuclear powerplants, but it should be switched to the latest technology levels indeed. Its not as if technology has stopped advancing. Only in Germany it has. which is a pity, becasue German reatcors once were considered to be the sefest in the world. Until that Tsunami in Asia set Germany under water so high as to reaching up to the medulla oblongata and cutting the central nervous system off the brain. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-13-21, 06:59 AM	#6
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	The Sueddeutsche Zeitung is rather "liberal" than "left", it just does not equal your point of view, and from this point everything must be politically 'left' It is not only Tritium though, and what exactly is being done with the filters after the water has been "cleaned"? As your link provided: 30 percent of the water is being "cleaned, that leaves 70 percent i guess. And the whole water cooling system has cracks everywhere, so water flows through the ruins, all the time since 2011, and is being exchanged with sea water. As they just found out the central off limits section is still too "hot" to come near it, except for robots. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

04-13-21, 06:04 AM	#8
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,305 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune. On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

04-13-21, 02:51 AM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	What the article fails to mention is that they plan to release the water slowly over the next 30 or so years, and that's after it's already been diluted.