Some more missions and questions

[Miika]

I sent some more missions to Bill's site. I made and play-tested them for LwAmi mod 2.03, during which I made some remarks and had a few questions. I like the way the mod makes the AI act more "intelligent", but it also makes the scenario designing a bit more challenging. (Didn't I just put the speed to 5kts, why is that Victor III going at 20kts etc. )

But seriously, the more variations for the behaviour of the AI platforms, the better, for it makes the scenarios more and more re-playable.

A couple of questions: in "FF Unlikely Rescue", I found it very hard for the Typhoon to stay in the surface. Since it uses "transit", and the depth has been set to 64ft for two waypoints, shouldn't it stay in the surface? I have used a script for that as well, but still it sometimes just seems to dive on its own, ruining my goal. Has the mod something to do with this?

Or... I've noticed that if I set some waypoints for P-3 and run the game in time-compressed mode, it sometimes may miss a waypoint and turn around until it finally makes it. Is it possible that an edge of a trigger or a sub waypoint could be missed as well? And hence the script set to the waypoint?

In "FF Pirates Again!" I put quite a few triggers to the cargo ship, and a couple of them simply refused to work. Is there a de facto limit for triggers/platform? Or some other mechanism, for instance if a 1% damage trigger is fired, a 10% won't work?

And finally, I tried to make a trigger around the cargo ship to be fired if warning shots were fired close to it. (=1nm radius, to be fired with approach goal for shell or bullets) I couldn't make it work, however. Anyone has a working example?

I you find fatal bugs, please tell me, I'll at least try to fix them. And all my missions are open, so feel free to re-write and re-publish them. The more missions there are out there, the better.

And Luftwolf and Amizaur, thanks for the great mod

And thanks, Bill, for putting them on your site

Miika

[Molon Labe]

The mod didn't affect AI behavior all that much, except in a few specific regards. The acceleration of the victor is probably due to it detecting a hostile or unknown platform (or a platform on the same side making such detection) and a stock doctrine being run. The changes of the mod to sonar capabilities could cause this effect to show on the mod but not on stock, but it is stock behavior.

As for diving, I think the AI is programmed to change depth, sometimes to check the link and such. You might be able to fight this using scripts that force the sub to a certain depth for a certain amount of time, although a new doctrine that starts will probably override this.

[LuftWolf]

Thanks Molon, that's what I was going to say as well.

Although, the AI sensor performance increases are in some cases pretty dramatic, but that only allows the subs to perform their mostly stock behaviors when they detect another platform. Previously, it was easier to force AI behavior because most of them were just moving targets, running along happily in a world with no other contacts, since their sonars couldn't detect even the loudest contacts past 5nm or so and they practically had to run over submarines to detect them unless they were cavitating.

[Bill Nichols]

Miika's latest are on my site, now. Thanks, Miika!

[Miika]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Thanks Molon, that's what I was going to say as well.

Although, the AI sensor performance increases are in some cases pretty dramatic, but that only allows the subs to perform their mostly stock behaviors when they detect another platform. Previously, it was easier to force AI behavior because most of them were just moving targets, running along happily in a world with no other contacts, since their sonars couldn't detect even the loudest contacts past 5nm or so and they practically had to run over submarines to detect them unless they were cavitating.

Exactly, and that's one of the reasons I like the mod so much.

It is a bit more challenging but also makes the scenarios more re-playable, since the different random starting configurations will create totally different situations each time you play.

[OKO]

Originally Posted by Miika

A couple of questions: in "FF Unlikely Rescue", I found it very hard for the Typhoon to stay in the surface. Since it uses "transit", and the depth has been set to 64ft for two waypoints, shouldn't it stay in the surface? I have used a script for that as well, but still it sometimes just seems to dive on its own, ruining my goal. Has the mod something to do with this?

I don't think so.
As you already saw, sometimes, the AI behavior is far for the one expected.
What you mentionned here certainly doesn't depends on the LWAMI.
There is usually some different way to make AI doing something, different way ... with only one working really ...
for your example, you must test : 64ft with a duration on the WP, example 64ft for 00:30, but testing also launching a script as you did, on destination goal (usually works fine), to force the sub to stay at 64 ft for a duration.
This way is interesting => at the end of the duration of the script, the AI will resume the previous behavior. I use this kind of script to order AI to attack specific platform after specific events.

Originally Posted by Miika

Or... I've noticed that if I set some waypoints for P-3 and run the game in time-compressed mode, it sometimes may miss a waypoint and turn around until it finally makes it. Is it possible that an edge of a trigger or a sub waypoint could be missed as well? And hence the script set to the waypoint?

I solved my problems with Orion as mentionned above.
Example : I make it spawn somewhere on the map on a dynamic location, with a specific destination trigger on each location, and using this method =>
If Orion spawn location 1 (more exactly : if trigger Orion spawn location 1 is fired ...), then orion go 090 for 600 sec
If Orion spawn location 2, then orion go 180 for 600 sec
If Orion spawn location 3, then orion go 270 for 600 sec
Why I use this ? to make the Orion come from a random bearing, to improve replayability.

After the 600 sec, the Orion will resume his WP following.
And I help him to work nice with usually a speed of 250 at 200ft for MAD search (if completed trigger orion spawn location 1 >600 sec, then Orion speed 250 at 200ft).
If you chose sonobuoy search or whatever kind of WP, the Orion will start the job at the place he is AFTER the 600 sec. he will just resume previous orders.
This is very effective to control AI orion, and allow you to make it spawn at different place at mission start, and to give him a path to the working place quite easily.

Edit these missions for examples =>
http://okof4.free.fr/missions/DW/MP6...se_v1.71_e.zip
http://okof4.free.fr/missions/DW/MP6...KLUB_v1.21.zip
http://okof4.free.fr/missions/DW/MP7...ping_v1.24.zip

Originally Posted by Miika

In "FF Pirates Again!" I put quite a few triggers to the cargo ship, and a couple of them simply refused to work. Is there a de facto limit for triggers/platform? Or some other mechanism, for instance if a 1% damage trigger is fired, a 10% won't work?

there is near always a reason why the trigger don't work, and very often a way to go round of it.
There is not trigger limits, I think the more i use should be around 50. But if you worked good (if you find out traps ...) triggers could be accumulate in a very big tree.
I use now a lot aggregate triggers, because it works really find and give easy work.
example here =>
http://okof4.free.fr/missions/DW/MP7...ping_v1.24.zip

1)kill trigger for each russian subs

2) first agreggate trigger with the 3 kill trigger
If one of sunk trigger (1 on 3) is fired => sound message "kill goal complete, continue with your mission", write message "1 of the russian sub is sunk"

3) second agreggate trigger with the 3 kill trigger
If 2 of sunk trigger (2 on 3) are fired => sound message "kill goal complete, continue with your mission", write message "2 of the russian sub are sunk"


4) third agreggate trigger with the 3 kill trigger
If all of sunk trigger (3 on 3) are fired => message "kill goal complete" and fire "trigger red wins" with sound message "mission is accomplished, report for debrief", write message "all of russian sub are sunk".


You could check with a trigger the damage of a platform, % per % :

if FFG damaged at 5% fired damage1
if FFG damaged at 25% fired damage2
if FFG damaged at 53% fired damage3 ....

if damage1 fired, then fire kickcrewasses trigger .......
if damage3 fired, then fire screamalot trigger .......
if damage3 fired, then fire jumpinwater trigger .......

it works fine

I use to separate triggers to make it easier to see where I could have failed, or where it doesn't work, with sometimes test messages I will erase after.
Something like layers after layers of triggers.
Don't be afraid to make a lots of them, the most important thing is to make it clear to debug and to understand them, even after some month.

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by OKO

I solved my problems with Orion as mentionned above.
Example : I make it spawn somewhere on the map on a dynamic location, with a specific destination trigger on each location, and using this method =>
If Orion spawn location 1 (more exactly : if trigger Orion spawn location 1 is fired ...), then orion go 090 for 600 sec
If Orion spawn location 2, then orion go 180 for 600 sec
If Orion spawn location 3, then orion go 270 for 600 sec
Why I use this ? to make the Orion come from a random bearing, to improve replayability.

Do you use "can refire"? for this triggers?

[Miika]

Thank you, OKO, great ideas! I especially liked the point about combining scripts with WP behaviour. I´ve been thinking of how to make the platforms move this way.

Do you have any in-depth knowledge of how the "track" function works? In "FF Unlikely Rescue" I tried to make the helo follow the Typhoon very close and then "deploy" the techs.

Also, is there a way to spawn a platform (a raft, for instance) close to a platform (a sunken sub)?

Miika

[TLAM Strike]

I just played 'RF The Infamous Escape', very fun. I shot down the helo, sunk the Grisha then the Nanuchka, went in to the Western Mine Field and left the rebels chasing their tales. I hope you make more Red Fleet missions with the kilo!

Just one problem; there should be a trigger telling the player when he has gotten far enough away from the Rebels. All missions really need a mission-accomplished trigger; otherwise you my just end up driving around for an hour after the mission is done.

[Miika]

There should be... I must check it. There are three of them, although you have to travel around 20nm from your starting location. But you have a point there. I originally had them much closer, but in a couple of games I was still engaging (and being engaged) when the trigger informed that the mission is complete. It felt a bit unrealistic at that point, so I decided to move the triggers further away. I admit, though, that with the typical speeds of kilo they are quite far away. :hmm:

I'll think of this and possibly send a repaired version with the new missions I'm making.

And next time you play you could be engaged with a kilo or there could be a Victor III hiding in the minefield, who knows

Miika

[OKO]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

Do you use "can refire"? for this triggers?

not on these ones =>
it's only for spawn locations, usually I put them ~10 to 12 mn of flight from search area, so they are activated just once.
I use this only to allow the Orion to come from different direction, to have the possibility to let the AI drive it.
I try to script all AI on my MP scenario to play them whatever the number of player, even to play it solo.

[OKO]

Originally Posted by Miika

Thank you, OKO, great ideas! I especially liked the point about combining scripts with WP behaviour. I´ve been thinking of how to make the platforms move this way.

Do you have any in-depth knowledge of how the "track" function works? In "FF Unlikely Rescue" I tried to make the helo follow the Typhoon very close and then "deploy" the techs.

Also, is there a way to spawn a platform (a raft, for instance) close to a platform (a sunken sub)?

Miika

Maybe you could try first "enter solution" with some uncertainty then "track platform", on the same script, you will use the time you need it ... ?