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Old 05-11-2020, 11:30 AM   #1
mapuc
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Default Got an idea to a non-combatant WW2 game

Every WW2 related game you buy today is a combat/violent game
(Those games i have played and known)

My idea is not 100 % clear yet.

But the bottom line of it is:

You are commanding officer for the air and sea rescue and it's your and your crews job to save as many pilot and seamen from the sea near the English coast.

Furthermore you can drive every available vehicle or fly every available airplane in the game.

Example.
On the map you get a notification an English/German pilot have been shot down.
You jump into the jeep/other military car and drive to the airplane, which is waiting and there you take off and fly to this area and make a search for this English/German pilot.

You can also use every available boats in the game-Boats you use, when a merchant ship have been hit by torpedoes and now the surviving sailor need to be rescued.

Nothing but a crazy idea on a non-combatant WW2 related game.

Markus
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:15 PM   #2
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I don't see how this could be accomplished without every mission being a timed mission and those get old real fast.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:36 PM   #3
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It will be some kind of a simulation game a SAR(Search and Rescue) during WWII

And you are the head officer for the entire thing.
There will be airbases and harbours(not the correct word for the place where your ships is)

As mentioned nothing more than a diffust idea.

No one will, develop such a game...if you can't kill or torture people in a game it's worthless.

Markus
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Old 05-13-2020, 04:41 PM   #4
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I would imagine that it could be done in a similar fashion of Sonalyst’s “Fleet Command”. Switch between rescue units in 3rd and 1st person. It could work and be fun. I would play it. Ill see if I can make something like that
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by captainadccdacaptain View Post
I would imagine that it could be done in a similar fashion of Sonalyst’s “Fleet Command”. Switch between rescue units in 3rd and 1st person. It could work and be fun. I would play it. Ill see if I can make something like that
As in real life you have not an eternity to safe those souls.

The only weapon you will have to your (forgot the word) will be some handguns for self defense (Like the real Red Cross or similar)

During the Battle of Britain campaign, you will have a lot of jobs to do, so here you shall have the possibility to give order to your crew(AI)

Edit
Have made some search to find something on British Search And Rescue during WWII.
From what I understand there wasn't really a Search And Rescue. They began slowly in 1940 but here it was the RAF who was in charge.
On the other hand Germany had a Search And Rescue which began in 1935.
End edit

Markus

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Old 05-14-2020, 06:44 PM   #6
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Another idea to consider would be a WWII merchant Marine simulator.


Give a taste for the other side of the war.


A game where you have to make decisions concerning whether to use convoys or single ships and if so, how to structure convoys with limited resources all the while being faced with demands from both suppliers and delivery forces for more and more.


As the war progresses, these decisions may need to be modified.... or not depending on the player.



How to plan what the escorts will do if the convoy is attacked (there are some really good books that describe the various techniques for escorts and how it evolved in the war)



Figuring out the courses and speeds to enable efficient shipping while still avoiding being too predictable.



Just the logistics of forming a large convoy is pretty complex. The player would have to weigh any advantage of a convoy with the vulnerabilities of forming and disbanding convoys.



If using a convoy how to implement OPSEC. And if attacked, what will the convoy do and how will that effect crew morale?


I would be interested in playing that sort of game. Be nice to do some historical "what ifs" concerning the decision to use convoys and when to use them.



That sort of game might be a good break from the killing type games.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:12 PM   #7
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WOW that would indeed be a great sim-game.

Never been thinking on such a non-combat game.

(Well the Merchant was equipped with weapons somewhere in the war)

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Old 05-15-2020, 02:56 PM   #8
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That would be very enjoyable!

How about a game where you are an RAF reconnaissance plane that scans the English Channel for enemy presence and report any contacts, while discerning which is german (UBoats, Bf109s, etc) and allied (fishing trawlers, British planes and ships, etc...) and if you report too many false enemy contacts or not enough enemy contacts, you get fired and subsequently lose the game. You yourself would not engage, but be able to watch the conflicts and provide updates to base
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by captainadccdacaptain View Post
That would be very enjoyable!

How about a game where you are an RAF reconnaissance plane that scans the English Channel for enemy presence and report any contacts...

I like that idea.


However, having spent the majority of my military career conducting reconnaissance, I can attest that it is BORING. Mind numbing boring, tedious, and dull and that's on a good day.



Think of playing SH4 in real time... from Pearl



But the planning of reconnaissance would be, in my opinion, a more enjoyable game. If I missdisremember correctly, one of the Task Force games had a pretty clever use of integrating reconnaissance aircraft in to the fleet game play. The player had to made decisions on when and where to deploy the aircraft.



Do you completely cover one small area so that you catch every thing in that one area, but completely miss anything in the other areas. Or do you use sampling theory and partially cover multiple areas, accepting missing more but covering more.



Then there is the temporal aspect of reconnaissance. Do you cover one area multiple times during the day or multiple areas once a day?


I think that a logistics of reconnaissance game might be interesting. Balancing the resources with the mission requirements. Receiving intelligence information that may or may not be accurate and revising collection based on this, nor not based on this information could be challenging.


I wonder how a game designer could incorporate the difficulties in finding ships in the ocean from an aircraft? It really would be blobs and smears. That would be an interesting design for a First Person viewpoint. No pausing during the First Person portions and incorporating aircraft shaking and how it affects optics.



This type of video game will have low graphic requirements (think Action Stations if anyone remembers that) for the planning and operations portion. This would make developing this game easier but might not have the appeal for today's customers who want the fancy graphics. But low graphics also means that more work can be applied to the programming of the game elements.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:18 PM   #10
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There you have it. There's no limits when it comes to ideas on non-combatant game in the WWII era.

The question is-How popular would it be.
As mentioned earlier. Player want games where there's action from start to end and where the player have to kill as many Fritz s/he can.
That's the impression I have.

Markus
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:49 PM   #11
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The question is-How popular would it be.
As mentioned earlier. Player want games where there's action from start to end and where the player have to kill as many Fritz s/he can.
That's the impression I have.

Markus[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately I would have to agree, seeing as most of the people I have known would not even LOOK in the same direction of a game if had anything other than mindless violence.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:25 AM   #12
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Well there has to be some sort of conflict that needs to be overcome by the player in order to give the player a sense of accomplishment.


Certainly, killing/destroying characters in a video game is a very popular one, primarily because it is easy. Program 10 targets, if the player ends up with less than 10 targets remaining there is a sense of accomplishment that has a metric scoring principle.



There is a reason why sports and other games have scores.


Another type of conflict is the game environment. The game design places obstacles that inhibit the player from meeting goals. Accomplishment is recorded by either number of obstacles overcome or the time it takes to overcome the obstacles.



Some of the First Person Sneak games like the Thief series are like this. The player is penalized for killing NPCs by the game mechanics. Points are scored by being able to move your character to a specific location and picking up an object all the while not observed.



Building type games are also an example of environmental conflict.



There are other types of conflicts, but the element of any enjoyable game is the prevention/mitigation of some sort of conflict.


Any type of non-killing game needs to have a type of conflict that will attract the interest of the player.


Unfortunately, since killing stuff is an easy way to represent conflicts and the resolution of that conflict, it is not surprising that killing type games are popular. It is less because of any attraction to violence, and more because if the ease of developing a conflict that is straightforward to solve and the results easily measured.


This is especially true on any type of war game. Take WWII for example. Despite the fact that only about 10% of the military forces were actually engaged in combat, it is the combat nature that most people think of when considering WWII activities.



Designing a WWII video game that does not involve killing, will go against most people's concept of what happened in WWII.



But let's be honest, part of the attraction of video games is being able to "do" things that we never get a chance to do in real life.



Most of us don't spend our days killing people.



Most of us would not enjoy a video game of working in an office processing documentation.



So in order to successfully design a video game that does not involve killing, the designer has to create a set of activities that are



1. Conflict resolution orientated. Most likely will be some form of environmental conflict

2. Involve risks to the player character. Failing a timed mission is probably not enough

3. Has metric accomplishments (aka scores, ranks, RP levels, or missions)
4. Involves an activity that the player does not do in real life. I am not going to buy a game about morning commutes and office politics. I get paid to put up with that. I am not paying anyone else.

5. Has some sort of urgency or importance that the player would care about. Grocery shopping and garden weeding are probably not good examples.



If you want your game to take place during wartime, but you don't want the player to be killing things, the choices are, in my opinion, limited to three


1. Intelligence type games. WWII was won because of SIGINT. A considerable amount of SIGINT techniques were developed in WWII. A SIGINT simulator would be interesting to me, but most likely not too interesting to normal air-breathing humans. Why? Because SITINT is rarely exciting. SIGINT, like most intelligence is the slow disciplined analysis of data over long periods of time. Essential in real life, boring in a video game. Measuring the accomplishments (Score) in a SIGINT simulator would be either time based (and those suck) or in the context of successful or unsuccessful outcomes of combat activities performed by NPCs.



In a previous post, I gave some idea about reconnaissance planning as a potential basis for a video game



1a. A subset of Intelligence type games would be cryptography. There have been plenty of cryptography types games even before the advent of video games. Unfortunately, in real life, breaking codes takes a lot of people, a lot of time, and a lot of calculations.. and a lot of luck, none of which translates well to video games. People may like code breaking games as a diversion similar to a crossword puzzle, but I don't know if players would like that as a full time part of a video game.



2. Logistics. This, I think, is the most likely type of game that can take place during a war but does not involve the player killing. I already talked about a merchant marine type logistics game. Other types might include fleet support logistics. Aircraft Carriers and Battleships get thirsty and want to be fed. How do you do that? Do you bring your carriers back to port for supplies? Do you have logistics with or follow the carriers/battleships? Do you set up remote fueling areas in mid ocean?


The Germans tried this with their surface resupply forces both surface and submarine craft. This brings, to me, an interesting type of game idea. If you are operating a mid ocean resupply force that force, itself needs logistical support. You want to remain hidden from the enemy but at the same time be able to be located by friendly forces. Do you stay in one place and hope that you are not discovered by the enemy? Or do you move, which may or may not increase your chances of being found by the enemy, but in any case makes finding you by your friendly forces more difficult (remember SIGINT!)


The third type of non-killing type war game would involve security.
One option would be operating the security forces guarding a base. You want to prevent enemy soldiers from getting in. You have a finite amount of resources and a finite amount of area that needs to be guarded. Do you set up your security forces so they don't move or do you have them patrol where they can be predictable? Do you put all of your forces in one ring of security or do you have multi level security? How to your manage morale and logistics?


Another option would be running a POW camp. Here you are trying to prevent the prisoners from getting out. Most likely your resources will be very scarce. You want to maintain security while obeying the various treaties. Morale of the prisoners is important as you want to convince them that it might be easier to stay there then it would be to return to their home country via escape. How do you structure security in a way that does not create predictable patterns.


I seriously applaud you for having an interest in non-killing type games. I think that with the advent of today's gaming techniques, it should be easier to program and design non-killing games than it was years ago. At one point, killing pixels was pretty much the only way to design a video game. These days, we have the technology to design other types of games.



The problem will be, of course, the customers. If the customers of video games want violence and killing, that's what they will be willing to pay for.



Thanks for bring up this topic.
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Old 05-18-2020, 07:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc View Post
No one will, develop such a game...if you can't kill or torture people in a game it's worthless.

Markus

You are right, beside the fact that in SH1, SH4 (popular submarine games) the elements of rescuing pilots or photograph missions are included, every war is a dirty business, to be convinced one can go watch the movie Indianapolis with Nicolas Cage or Das Boot (German movie)...So it's a good thing and not surprising that a war game should be about killing the enemy and should include tactical and strategic decisions from the player that would not materialize without those - violent - elements. Your idea instead is purifying the war, a terrible idea IMO.
But what you are depicting is a game without war at all, so why speaking about war games and WWII? Why not rescuing passengers of the Costa Concordia for example which takes place in peace time? And if you don't like violence then you won't play a fishing game either, will you? What you have in mind is an adventure-type game, but apparently very limited in scope and gameplay, no chance I would buy such a thing when reading your idea, unless there are numerous obstacles in my way to achieve the goal of rescuing or whatever.

If you really ever intend to make such a game, then start to make a Kickstarter fund raising first...I'm afraid you will be horribly deceived, but at least you'll be able to interrupt the disaster
But also be aware that very simple games can hit the charts - but the central idea needs to be a much better one and getting 'the feel' of today's players.




Best regards and greetings,
XS

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Old 06-30-2020, 01:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc View Post
Every WW2 related game you buy today is a combat/violent game
(Those games i have played and known)

My idea is not 100 % clear yet.

But the bottom line of it is:

You are commanding officer for the air and sea rescue and it's your and your crews job to save as many pilot and seamen from the sea near the English coast.

Furthermore you can drive every available vehicle or fly every available airplane in the game.

Example.
On the map you get a notification an English/German pilot have been shot down.
You jump into the jeep/other military car and drive to the airplane, which is waiting and there you take off and fly to this area and make a search for this English/German pilot.

You can also use every available boats in the game-Boats you use, when a merchant ship have been hit by torpedoes and now the surviving sailor need to be rescued.

Nothing but a crazy idea on a non-combatant WW2 related game.

Markus
Interesting idea - do you know this one: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2...ch_and_Rescue/
It's quite nice.
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