Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Putin is fully back to what the USSR wanted throughout the cold war.
Driving a wedge between the US and Europe. By that increasing the vulnerability of Europe, and by that making it more porne to blackmail and threatening. Keeping US nuclear tactcial wepaons out of Europe, or get them out. Putin wants back what was lost in the years after Perestroika: the Baltic states are on his wish list, Poland, obviously the Ukraine. He cnanot get it with one big hammerblow, but he can keepo things in a fragile state of lacking staiblity so to keepo Russia's options on the table. A rift in the EU between Russophile appeasers (Germany, france), and hawks (Eastern Europeans, the US) is always helpful. He also wants the licensing of NS2, that woudlk allow him to make money again with delivering gas while also tigheenign the strangling wire around the Ukraine.



In general he wnats to keep the initiave, to keep ahad of the West'ÄS plannign cacle, he wanst eurooe to react, Europe not getting ahead in the action-reaction game. Keep them busy, keep them reacting, give them ever new things to be concerned about and wanting to discuss them, dont let them have a break where they could breath and come to their senses, he thinks.


Every chess player knows it, every military tactician: give the enemy something to be concerned about. Raise ever new threats, and when he has countered them, already have new threats ready to keep him ducking down. Keep him on the defensive, keep him reacting. Fix him in place, while you are manouvering into ever better positions.

[mapuc]

Nor NATO or EU is interested in a war with Russia in no way. If Russia does invade Ukraine the response would be, as an EU-politician said on Danish TV. an all-out economical sanction against Russia.

Even if Russia should threaten Poland there will not be a war.

NATO and EU has become psychological weak.

I wonder if we can compare the situation near the border between Russia and Ukraine, with the situation between Germany and Poland 1938 ?

Markus

[Skybird]

While Germany has stopped the EU from delivering weapons to the Ukraine (!!! gotta love those Germans...), I think the US does and who mnows, some European nations, in the hidden, do it as well. I recently red attacking the Ukraine in full would become a very costly war for Russia. They would probably win, but it would be costly, and not fast.



They must not anyway. Keeping the Ukraine instabile and on its toes works as good for Russia, for just a fraction of the price of a full war.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

While Germany has stopped the EU from delivering weapons to the Ukraine (!!! gotta love those Germans...), I think the US does and who mnows, some European nations, in the hidden, do it as well. I recently red attacking the Ukraine in full would become a very costly war for Russia. They would probably win, but it would be costly, and not fast.



They must not anyway. Keeping the Ukraine instabile and on its toes works as good for Russia, for just a fraction of the price of a full war.

European NATO is both military and political weak.
The American part of NATO is military strong but with a weak administration in the White House.

China and Russia know this.

This is why I fear there will be a war in the Donbass region after the Russian new years eve.

Edit
I had no plan on turning this thread into discussing Ukraine. Well I did, so Jim, merge this with my Ukraine thread
End edit

Markus

[astvitaliy1982]

Ребята, может вы вспомните из за чего началась война на Украине? Так я напомню. Президент Янукович в последний момент отказался подписывать документы о сближении с Евросоюзом. Условия были очень не выгодны для Украины. И тут же в этой стране вспыхнул "майдан" ( революция). Тогдашний президент Янукович согласился сложить свои полномочия и уйти с поста, лишь бы не развязалась война. Гарантами этого соглашения выступили Германия и Франция. Но они обманули его и в Киеве начали убивать людей, Януковичь сбежал в Россию а к власти пришёл Порошенко и подписал с Евросоюзом эти соглашения. Тут же в Украину приехала Виктория Нуланд и накормила людей евро-печеньем. Донбасс отказался сотрудничать с Киевом и признавать власть Порошенко. Который пришел к ней не легитимным путем. Порошенко вместо полицейской операции на Донбассе, предпочел военную операцию и ввел войска против части фактически своего народа. На Донбассе началась война. Россия оказывает гуманитарную помощь Донбассу и отправляет гум конвои в этот край. Украина объявила торговую блокаду Донбассу и официально запретила ввозить товары из Украины в Донбасс и вывела свою национальную валюту с этого края. Если бы не Россия тут был бы голод.
Сейчас Украина в кабале Евросоюза ( это моё личное мнение). Из этой страны почти сразу начали вывозить чернозем, залежи янтаря, лес с западной Украины, остановили и развалили военное производств и многое другое. Все это почти за бесценок перевозится в Европу.
У меня вопрос. При чем тут Россия?

[mapuc]

Dear astvitaliy1982
I can't get the head and tail in what you wrote in Russian when translated into English.

Here is what it says in English

Dear friends, can you send me an order to live in Ukraine? So here we go. President Enukovich at the last moment decided to send the documents to the Eurosome. The terms may not be valid for Ukraine. And this is the one-page "avoid" (revolution) feature. The daily president of Enukovich suggested that you fill out the form below and leave a message if it does not appear. The guarantees governing the relationship between Germany and France. If they have not been registered with Kiev, they will not be able to return to Russia, and they will be sent back and forth between them. There are some of them in the Ukraine, Victoria Nuland and the other European-born. Donbass has decided to work with Kiev and present the power of Poroshenko. The interior of the room is not a legitimate one. The most recent police operations in the Donbass, the proceeds of the operation and the actual operation of the warehouse. At the Donbass you will arrive. Russia occupies the Donas base of the rubber band and conveys a rubber cone in this area. Ukraine uses the Donboss blockchain and officially recommends accessing documents from Ukraine on or off. If Russia does not reach this point in time.
Seek Ukraine in the cable of Eurosity (this is a very simple memorial). If this is the case then maybe this is a nice post. This post is for visitors to Europe.
I'm talking about it. By whom do you think Russia is?

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Dear astvitaliy1982
I can't get the head and tail in what you wrote in Russian when translated into English.

Here is what it says in English



Markus

Here try this one.

Guys, can you remember why the war in Ukraine began? So I'll remind you. President Yanukovych refused to sign documents on rapprochement with the European Union at the last moment. The conditions were very unprofitable for Ukraine. And immediately a "Maidan" (revolution) broke out in this country. Then President Yanukovych agreed to resign and resign from office so that war would not unleashed. The guarantors of this agreement were Germany and France. But they deceived him and started killing people in Kiev, Yanukovych fled to Russia and Poroshenko came to power and signed these agreements with the European Union. Immediately Victoria Nuland came to Ukraine and fed people euro cookies. Donbass refused to cooperate with Kiev and recognize Poroshenko's power. Who came to her in a non-legitimate way. Poroshenko instead of a police operation in Donbass, preferred a military operation and led troops against part of his de facto people. War broke out in Donbass. Russia provides humanitarian assistance to Donbass and sends hum convoys to this region. Ukraine declared a trade blockade to Donbass and officially banned the import of goods from Ukraine into Donbass and withdrew its national currency from this region. If it hadn't been for Russia, there would have been hunger here.

Now Ukraine is in the bondage of the European Union (this is my personal opinion). Chernozem, amber deposits, forest from western Ukraine began to be exported from this country almost immediately, military production was stopped and destroyed and much more. All this is transported to Europe almost for nothing.

I have a question. What does Russia have to do with it?

Russia has everything to do with it. NATO needs Russia as an adversary to justify its existence, Russia must be seen as the devil’s grandmother. Though I can see one day Russia having to choose to join NATO to counter those Chicoms in the east. You got to admit Russia has a truckload of untapped resources China would love to claim. But right now by inviting Russia’s satellite countries we are basically removing Russia’s bargaining chips. Makes it easier to see things our way when they choose to join NATO

[mapuc]

The main reason to why I created this thread was that I read, as mentioned at start-Russia accuse NATO to prepare for war against them.

I have nothing against Russia, NATO, USA or some other country.

I'm wondering why this accusation ?

NATO is as I see it in no way capable to fight a full scale war with Russia.

Markus

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by mapuc

NATO as I see it, is in no way capable of a full-scale war with Russia

Probably 'cause there's no Adolph or Napoleon to lead'm to glorious victory over Russian "General Winter" on the endless steppes... & I seriously doubt the "third time would be the charm"!...and those two jaspers had a reasonably unified Europe before even commencing their respective empire-ending futile disastrous attempts. And NATO, these days, ain't even close!

[mapuc]

Following is part of an article. It's about the phone call between Biden and Putin later today Thursday.

At the same time, Putin has demanded that Ukraine must never become part of NATO and that NATO must withdraw its forces from Eastern Europe.

This applies to countries such as the former Soviet republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, as well as Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania. Countries that until 1989 were part of the Soviet bloc.

All these countries are today members of NATO

How steadfast are the Russians on these two points?
NATO can never agree to leave countries like Poland, Romania a.s.o.

Markus

[Skybird]

Additionally to the reasons by Putin that I posted above, I think he plays it the way he does also because of one obvious fact: he does not take Biden serious. Biden was weighed and found too light. Russia currently is not afraid of the US. Nor seems China to be. And Europe? Europe does not even count, I think.


The latest Zirkon missile tests by Russia should really concern everbody in the West. They have the potential to let the maritime strategy of the US navy collapse. That both Russia and China have such weapons, is not good.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Additionally to the reasons by Putin that I posted above, I think he plays it the way he does also because of one obvious fact: he does not take Biden serious. Biden was weighed and found too light. Russia currently is not afraid of the US. Nor seems China to be. And Europe? Europe does not even count, I think.


The latest Zirkon missile tests by Russia should really concern everbody in the West. They have the potential to let the maritime strategy of the US navy collapse. That both Russia and China have such weapons, is not good.

As I wrote
The American part of NATO is military strong but with a weak administration in the White House.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Additionally to the reasons by Putin that I posted above, I think he plays it the way he does also because of one obvious fact: he does not take Biden serious. Biden was weighed and found too light. Russia currently is not afraid of the US. Nor seems China to be. And Europe? Europe does not even count, I think.


The latest Zirkon missile tests by Russia should really concern everbody in the West. They have the potential to let the maritime strategy of the US navy collapse. That both Russia and China have such weapons, is not good.

Agreed

[mapuc]

Biden and Putin had a chat yesterday. They used diplomacy when discussing Ukraine and Eastern Europe.

In plain English-It didn't solve anything this phone conversation they had-In fact it has worsen(Said by a Danish expert on US-Russian relationships)

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Russia's Vladimir Putin has warned his US counterpart Joe Biden that imposing new sanctions over Ukraine could lead to a complete breakdown in relations.

In a phone call late on Thursday, the Russian president said such sanctions would be a "colossal mistake".

Mr Biden, meanwhile, told Mr Putin that the US and its allies would respond decisively to any invasion of Ukraine.

The call, requested by Russia, was the pair's second such conversation this month and lasted for almost an hour.

It marked the latest effort to defuse tensions over Ukraine's eastern border with Russia, where Ukrainian officials say more than 100,000 Russian troops have been sent.

The build-up has prompted concern in the West, with the US threatening Mr Putin with sanctions "like none he's ever seen" if Ukraine comes under attack.

Russia, however, denies it is planning to invade the country and says the troops are there for exercises. It says it is entitled to move its troops freely on its own soil.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59832722