US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Buddahaid]

Yeah, too bad there nothing to relate to this thread in it.

[Skybird]

Expensive feet stomping frim Washington! Pentgaon snubs Amazon for building its Jedi cloud project, and gives the contract to Microsoft, what surprises many experts , becasue it was assumed Amazon would be the bettern choice since it has a clear lead over Microsoft in most of the techcnological fields associated with this project, and according to some observers offered the cheaper deal as well. When it comes to cloud comuting and tehcnology, not Microsoft, but Amazon and Google are the heavyweights in the ring, but Google doe snot sign in to weapons deals anymore. But Amazon, that is Bezos, and Bezos has positioned himself himself against the kid in the White House, and owns the Washington Post, and so it is a very understandable suspicion that not technically or economically relevant reasons led to the decision, but personal desires for revenge. This latest round of stomping feet in the white house costs the Americna taxt payer needlessly additonal hundreds of millions, for the most oikely inferior product, jst so to please one signle precious hurt ego. The worse sokutoon for the more money. Because of personal hostility and revenge. All this paid for by the American tax payers. Hooray!



Just days ago there was a decision made public that Little Cesar has ruled that government and public services shall cancel all abonements for the New York Times and Washington Post.


Isnt it heart-warming to see little kids playing? Cute! This one child makes a whole nation and national economy his personal pet toy.

[August]

The Democrats Great White Hope is starting not to look so great.

Joe Biden privately contacted the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice when he was a senior and influential U.S. senator to discuss issues that his son Hunter’s firm was being paid to lobby on, according to government records.
On at least two occasions, Biden contacted federal departments to discuss issues related to Hunter’s firm’s lobbying clients, according to records reviewed by the Washington Examiner.
Biden’s behind-the-scenes outreach illustrates how his Senate work overlapped with his son’s business interests. Biden has faced scrutiny for taking actions that were perceived to benefit his son’s work, including calling for the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor and backing policies that helped the Delaware-based credit card industry while Hunter was working for MBNA, which is headquartered in the state.
Government records show that Biden, who has always insisted he knows nothing about his son's business activities, helped Hunter's work with strategic and highly specific interventions that could have benefited his son to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...-lobbying-firm

[Rockstar]

Ummm, Oracle and IBM alleged Amazon executives and the Pentagon have been overly cozy. Both challenged the integrity of the government's bidding process in a court. So I wonder, do you think Trumps name was mentioned in court? I mean really, who knew Trump held so much sway over IBM and Oracle. I wonder how he got them to challenge the Pentagons decision? Think maybe the Russians had something to do with it? I bet 'V' has a treasure trove of facts, law and research to back up any claim that Trump did it.

[Catfish]

Found that interesting. Not because of Snowden or 9/11, but how we accept a surveillance state (all the west, not only the US) without really speaking up against it.

"Since 2013 the real government whistleblower, Edward Snowden, has been in political asylum in Russia, where he continues to write books and tell his story of how as an employee of the NSA he discovered that the government was breaking the law in constructing a massive surveillance state."


“It says so much about the bureaucratic character of how the government works. The people who rise to the top of these governments. It’s about risk management for them. It’s about never being criticized for something…

Everybody wants to believe in conspiracy theories because it helps life make sense. It helps us believe that somebody is in control… that somebody is calling the shots, that these things all happen for a reason.

There are real conspiracies… but when you look back at the 9/11 report and when you look back at the history of what actually happened, what we can prove. Not on what we can speculate on, but what are at least are the commonly agreed facts… it’s very clear to me, as someone who worked in the intelligence community… that these attacks could have been prevented.” ~Edward Snowden

Snowden is implying that 9/11 was essentially allowed to happen so that the mass surveillance state, which is insanely profitable to certain people, could be created. And it has since been created.

https://themindunleashed.com/2019/10...joe-rogan.html

[Skybird]

I tend to agree with that. The deep state and deep intelligence fetishists certai8nly tremedously benefitted form 9/11, so did Bush jr, for whom the timing was perfect - his reputation and presidency laid in smoking ruins, and then he had the cause on which to held speeches and appeal to emotions and so regain sympathy points. Plus the side-effect of the Iraq war being linked to Al Quaeda - they might not have found nukes of which they said they knew Saddam ahd them and wherew he ahd themn, but even without these nukes they now could say that at least they ounbished Iraq for having allied wiht Al Quaeda (which they had't).

The pattern is not new, nor origoinal. Health arguments and environmental arguments are also massively abused for the pushing of political agendas of widening state paternalism and finaicoal redistributuion schemes. The fight against money laundering and organised crime is the (foul) excuse for driving the war against cash money. And so forth.

Politics lie. Vote, and you legitimise liars.


I have read the German edition of Snowden's book, btw, but I think I maybe already posted that (or not?). Recommended reading, and the writing has a good flow.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Found that interesting. Not because of Snowden or 9/11, but how we accept a surveillance state (all the west, not only the US) without really speaking up against it.

"Since 2013 the real government whistleblower, Edward Snowden, has been in political asylum in Russia, where he continues to write books and tell his story of how as an employee of the NSA he discovered that the government was breaking the law in constructing a massive surveillance state."


“It says so much about the bureaucratic character of how the government works. The people who rise to the top of these governments. It’s about risk management for them. It’s about never being criticized for something…

Everybody wants to believe in conspiracy theories because it helps life make sense. It helps us believe that somebody is in control… that somebody is calling the shots, that these things all happen for a reason.

There are real conspiracies… but when you look back at the 9/11 report and when you look back at the history of what actually happened, what we can prove. Not on what we can speculate on, but what are at least are the commonly agreed facts… it’s very clear to me, as someone who worked in the intelligence community… that these attacks could have been prevented.” ~Edward Snowden

Snowden is implying that 9/11 was essentially allowed to happen so that the mass surveillance state, which is insanely profitable to certain people, could be created. And it has since been created.

https://themindunleashed.com/2019/10...joe-rogan.html

If you find that believable, then the Deep State theory should make perfect sense, too.

[Catfish]

The deep state has become a fashion theme to talk about, but the original has nothing to do with politically "left" ideas, on the contrary.
It is about people who have the power, and despite lies and propaganda that is and never has been the politically left.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

The deep state has become a fashion theme to talk about, but the original has nothing to do with politically "left" ideas, on the contrary.
It is about people who have the power, and despite lies and propaganda that is and never has been the politically left.

So very true IMHO, I think to a certain extent we've allowed ourselves to be willing duped into fighting amongst ourselves by those people in power.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

The deep state has become a fashion theme to talk about, but the original has nothing to do with politically "left" ideas, on the contrary.
It is about people who have the power, and despite lies and propaganda that is and never has been the politically left.

Like the Neocon war lobby, the deep state has no political allegiance.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

The deep state has become a fashion theme to talk about, but the original has nothing to do with politically "left" ideas, on the contrary.
It is about people who have the power, and despite lies and propaganda that is and never has been the politically left.

Well yes and no.

The so called deep state tends to support the lefts political ideas because these often entail an expansion of governmental power, not because they are true believers. They are also quite happy to support the right when they promote ideas that entail the same thing (drug wars for example).

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

Like the Neocon war lobby, the deep state has no political allegiance.

Well i do agree.

Originally Posted by August

Well yes and no.

The so called deep state tends to support the lefts political ideas because these often entail an expansion of governmental power, not because they are true believers. They are also quite happy to support the right when they promote ideas that entail the same thing (drug wars for example).

An expansion of political power is not reserved for "the left", indeed the left (at least in Europe) usually has more regard for freedom of the individual, sometimes recently to a ridiculous and dangerous extent.

Here, as far as i can see back in time, the right was of course against the soviet union, so they did all politically regarding fighting evil communism, and the (at least european) "deep state" with its NATO-involved Operation Gladio was for once heading for the same goal.
The planning and execution along with "tests" (read real terror attacks and assassinations) was not initiated or ordered by the various governments, but rather a kind of joint venture of the secret services, or better certain branches of the latter.

What Trump and others talk about the "deep state" is a cloudy felt resistance against their own righteous way to handle things, however that resistance is not some "deep state" conspiracy, but rather common sense of some reasonable people who Trump has accidentally not yet removed from their position.

[Skybird]

The term deep state is a tricky one to use.

Originally is stems from Turkey and political conditions there at that time.

In Europe it usually is used to refer to a state increasing its power, control and influence beyond the perception focus and by bypassing the legitimation of laws, elections and constitiutions: deep state aims at bypassing checks and balances. It can also mean the friction institutions interl work flows produce - and by that slowing down decisions and intentions of politics: deep state as a quagmire slowing things down the deepr you sink into it. .

In America, the term seem to be used in at least two different meanings, a bit derailed like the term "liberal", which originally referred to "liberty" and not to "being politically left". The one meaning of deep state is parrallel to the paragraph above, is somehow in the succession of Eisenhower'S wrnring of the industrial-military complex eroding state and ursupating, corrupting power and control. But since some years, already before Little Cesar, Republicans use to brandmark opposition to conservative opinions in general as a resistence of the political and state-institutional system to Republican demands to form the country according to their will and ideas. Little Cesar now sto to hook up there and demonises resistence and opposition to himself as opposition projected by "deep state" against him. A minister does not obey? Deep state. A document is leaked? Deep state. His own attempts to bypass rules or to block release of unredacted documents or evidence beign ov erruled? Deep state. The secretary in the anteroom bringing the coffee in too cold to annoy him? Deep state.



Or as Catfish has put it more elegantly:

Originally Posted by Catfish

What Trump and others talk about the "deep state" is a cloudy felt resistance against their own righteous way to handle things, however that resistance is not some "deep state" conspiracy, but rather common sense of some reasonable people who Trump has accidentally not yet removed from their position.

The term is not agreed on in what it really means and covers. Everyone'S understanding seems to more or less vary a bit. Best is, I think, not to use it. Many use it, but everybody may mean something more or less different by it. Thus it is not so helpful to use it.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The term deep state is a tricky one to use.

The term 'deep state' has conspiracy theory connotations that allows some people take it less than seriously. The correct term is the administrative state. In the US government this is a vast number of people who have not been elected. They are appointed or hired by the current administration or are holdovers from previous administrations.

Originally Posted by Catfish

What Trump and others talk about the "deep state" is a cloudy felt resistance against their own righteous way to handle things, however that resistance is not some "deep state" conspiracy, but rather common sense of some reasonable people who Trump has accidentally not yet removed from their position.

That is a relative opinion by these people. They were not hired or appointed to make policy. Their job is to carry out the policies of the current administration. If they refuse or try to subvert that policy they are subverting the will of the electorate. If they feel strongly about their 'reasonable' opinions they should resign their cushy government jobs and run for office or get a job in the media. These people, the '#resistance' are why people call it the deep state.

[Skybird]

Quoting Stephanie Grisham:


"I worked with John Kelly, and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President."



Well. I what we see is the "genius of a great president", than fear the day you see a mere average one.



I think we see somethign different. Sectarian cult. Wagon fort mentality.