Mk 48 ADCAP...6nm range??

[emsoy]

Hm... not exactly...

We can easily lift the practical firing range limitations and let the AI shoot at any target within kinematic range. In fact that's how it the sim handled it for a while. So the functionality is already there - we also do on-the-fly DLZ calcs for SAM/AAMs to allow weapons to be fired 'early' to hit a fast closing target like an ASBM. But for relatively slow tops and fast ships this leads to a lot of stupid shots as the weapons are usually detected early and the defender has lots of time to move out of the way.

You can BOL-fire torps at any time, and guide them to any target.

As for fighting other submarines, sub-vs-sub is like a knife fight in a phone booth. If you get a good firing resolution on a sub beyond 6-ish nautical miles it suggests there might be something seriously wrong with the sensor model. So the firing range limit is pretty much a non-issue there, at least as far as I know.

[biosthetique]

EMSOY, I am worried about you eyes.

All I have been talking about, was SubvsSub.

And NO, it does not have to be a brawl!.....

But it is OK now, I already canceled the charges on my CC!....The fish is already in the water, the wire just snapped!...Can you hear it acquiring the target, it is going active....

[Herman]

Originally Posted by biosthetique

Then the decision to reduce the range, does not come from Jane's but from a lack of experience of shooting torpedoes at moving target from a submarine, in games like DW or SSN .

As I gathered, Harpoon is doing the same thing and they duplicated a Harpoon inaccuracy.

Realism is impossible I agree, but accurate data is possible, and decreasing a torpedo range under the excuse of one evading submarine, and the player unable to understand what is going on, to rationalize one size fits all, ignoring willingly any other case of submarine contact and following maneuvers is unacceptable in my book at that game price.

I think that your mathematics, calculations, and logic are correct. You understand that the reduced firing range was a Harpoon work-around solution to help the AI so that the targets could not run away. Although the firing range might be only 6nm, the fuel range was usually 20nm or so. The 14nm difference between firing and fuel range was to allow the torpedo to catch the target.

The PlayersDB also used this work-around solution, but not all H3 databases do. Some databases used the ideas you postulated (firing range = fuel range). I have tried them and I have never been hit by a torpedo fired against me. Against AI targets, the fuel=firing range databases seem okay since the AI might continue sailing right into the torpedo. Against a human, the AI-fired torpedoes are easy to escape.

Harpoon is hampered by the fact that the ships can turn and accelerate instantly. MNO uses a physics package to restrict units from instantaneous turns or acceleration. This helps, but only serves to reduce the chase range. Instead of needing 14nm to catch a target, it might only need 8-10nm. It is an improvement, but still not a perfect solution.

I think your ideas are good. The blanket firing range of #nm is easy for players and DB editors to use because it is fixed. Unfortunately, DB editors must make assumptions on the behaviour of the target. For example, PlayersDB assumes that the targets will run at 35kts to escape. Therefore, targets that are slower or faster than this basic assumption are still governed by the same firing range.

Your idea to have the firing range calculated according to the data from the target is very sophisticated and complex. By incorporating target data, you would know the max speed and manoeuvrability of the target and thus the torpedo would be allowed to fire at longer ranges when engaging a lumbering merchant vessel capable of only 20kts as opposed a shorter engagement range for an agile frigate capable of 30 knots. The firing solution would allow for X seconds for the ship to turn and X seconds to accelerate in the opposite direction. Your suggested firing solution would be very advanced.

I think it would be great. Unfortunately, both Harpoon and MNO games seem to rely upon pre-calculated solutions. I think you have a great concept, though.

[biosthetique]

Thank you Herman, it is appreciated.

It always feel good when someone reads thoroughly what you write, and understands it.

After those good words, I am going to read your review now!

[FERdeBOER]

I'm perfectly ok with the AI using the 6nm limit. I just would like to be able to use the fuel range for me (and multiplayer in the future). And, if I miss, it's my problem.

[Herman]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

I'm perfectly ok with the AI using the 6nm limit. I just would like to be able to use the fuel range for me (and multiplayer in the future). And, if I miss, it's my problem.

Some of us have thought about your idea for Harpoon. Because we are able to modify Harpoon databases, there were some people who thought about creating scenarios and databases with the longer engagement ranges for MP sessions. That way, a player could fire at longer range, but had to accept the possibility that his weapon would run out of fuel before reaching the target.

This remains a possibility if you wish to spend the time and effort to modify databases. However, most Harpoon database editors did not make the change since a human player could always fire the torpedoes on Bearing-Only-Launch and then take control of them via the guidance wire.

[emsoy]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

I'm perfectly ok with the AI using the 6nm limit. I just would like to be able to use the fuel range for me (and multiplayer in the future). And, if I miss, it's my problem.

I've added your request to the bug/feature tracking database, requesting an option for the human player to manually fire torps at targets out to the torp's max kinematic range. Have given it priority Major.

Thanks!

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by emsoy

I've added your request to the bug/feature tracking database, requesting an option for the human player to manually fire torps at targets out to the torp's max kinematic range. Have given it priority Major.

Thanks!

Thanks to you!