Wuhan virus 2020

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by August

So in other words there could be millions of people who have gotten and recovered from Covid without ever knowing what it was, and if they were counted through a post illness test then the mortality rate (and perhaps some of the panic) would be significantly diminished.

Though I must admit they dont call it Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome for nothing. I do believe we have the technology, facilities and medical professionals that can treat this. However if the spread isn't mitigated it may overload our healthcare system and its that overload which will increase death rates, that came from the CDC. But ya, I think this has been spreading around the world long before we knew what was going on. Which is in part why I think ol' Tony Fauci said our case fatality rate would probably be closer to 1% since the number of infected is probably already well beyond our wildest dreams! lol Time will tell.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by August

So in other words there could be millions of people who have gotten and recovered from Covid without ever knowing what it was, and if they were counted through a post illness test then the mortality rate (and perhaps some of the panic) would be significantly diminished.

If millions around the world have already been infected, there would have already been a huge increase in the number of hospitalizations and deaths. As healthcare systems would be instantly overwhelmed, this could not be covered up, so I doubt this is the case (yet).

[ET2SN]

So, I went to the grocery store this morning(ish) for my normal weekly shopping.

BTW, before I get started, I live in Iowa. About 30 miles south of Des Moines which puts us at the fringe of the DSM suburbs.

Most of the store looked normal, no price gouging and good selection.
TP, paper towels, cleaning detergents and soap (bath/bar soap is still plentiful) are GONE. The seagulls have already cleaned these isles out and the management posted signs on the empty shelves saying "due to hording, the store has limited purchasing of this item to one package per customer". What that item could have been, I haven't a clue because the shelf is bare.
Everything else was normal but I got some 411 from the cashier that "cheap" cigarettes are mostly gone. These are the off-off brand of smokes that, as it turns out, were imported. So, read into that what you want. Marlboros are no problem (please, no judging, I'm just telling you what I've seen). TP won't be an issue for me for at least another month but more about that later.

The key take-away so far- The first wave of the panic hit sometime last week and its mostly limited to paper goods and cleaning supplies. Canned foods are not a problem (odd?), at least not yet. TP may as well have never been invented, its just gone. There were no "guards" or "greeters" at the store to limit entry, but this is Iowa and, for the most part, this is how we do.

People look slightly freaked but had a good grasp on what's going on. We all understand the big picture in terms of the new virus, most of the worry is saved for the economy.

So, the big issue is TP. This wasn't a problem on my personal radar because I would buy in bulk when the supply would get low. Now, however, its going to be a problem of what to do when the neighbors come a-knockin'.
And I'm giving that scenario a couple of days to play out because a lot of folks seem to have been caught flat footed. I got a notice on my door today about not flushing odd stuff down the head, so hoo-we here we go.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Traveller

If millions around the world have already been infected, there would have already been a huge increase in the number of hospitalizations and deaths. As healthcare systems would be instantly overwhelmed, this could not be covered up, so I doubt this is the case (yet).

When did those projections begin? Most of the ones I've seen seem to begin around the end of January 2020. It been thought China was up against this virus from least October or November 2019 and we didn't close our borders with them for another 3 or 4 months. Europe is another story even after Italy started burning they just kept things open for travel up until the day after we finally closed our border with them.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, it is possible, apparently.


Current tests do test for presence of RNA, which means: the virus is there.


A new test that is hoped to be released soon tests for the presence of antibodies instead, which means the person's body has had a reason to form them: and that is the virus was or is present. This test does not tell you, however, whether the virus is still there, or is a thing of the past.

That's my understanding too. If a person has been infected with a virus, usually the virologists will be able to pick up something in the blood that shows the person has had it, even if it was mild.

[Traveller]

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, it is possible, apparently.


Current tests do test for presence of RNA, which means: the virus is there.


A new test that is hoped to be released soon tests for the presence of antibodies instead, which means the person's body has had a reason to form them: and that is the virus was or is present. This test does not tell you, however, whether the virus is still there, or is a thing of the past.

Apparently it is not uncommon for patients of many virus families to recover and still get positive in the tests even if immunity has been achieved. It is down to inactive traces remaining in the blood for some time until fully eliminated. In the case of the coronavirus it seems though that in some recovered cases, even if the disease is effectively defeated by the body, a low level of activity still remains for some time. Question now is it is also still contagious meanwhile. I will try to the find the link where I read it yesterday, but it is in spanish.

Also, the chinese now say they found a vaccine that could be effective and are starting testing it in humans. Again links in spanish, sorry use google translate or search directly in english:

https://www.elmundo.es/ciencia-y-sal...f108b4688.html

https://www.antena3.com/noticias/mun...001af0571.html

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20...-covid-19.html

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

your prosperity tree guy

Chris Martenson, PhD (Duke), MBA (Cornell) is an economic researcher and futurist specializing in energy and resource depletion, and co-founder of PeakProsperity.com (along with Adam Taggart). As one of the early econobloggers who forecasted the housing market collapse and stock market correction years in advance, Chris rose to prominence with the launch of his seminal video seminar: The Crash Course which has also been published in book form (Wiley, March 2011). It’s a popular and extremely well-regarded distillation of the interconnected forces in the Economy, Energy and the Environment (the “Three Es” as Chris calls them) that are shaping the future, one that will be defined by increasing challenges to growth as we have known it. In addition to the analysis and commentary he writes for his site PeakProsperity.com, Chris’ insights are in high demand by the media as well as academic, civic and private organizations around the world, including institutions such as the UN, the UK House of Commons and US State Legislatures.

He is also a studied toxicologist.

I know, the above is from his website, but I confirmed the data and claims in it with two german sources who confimed all that and described him the same way. Since Traveller brought this guy to my attention, I researched him a bit already last week. Thanks for that, Traveller, very useful action of yours. Also thanks for that John Campbell link, who also was a unknown to me before. What these two men publish on this Corona crisis, is pure gold in updates on the situation, I put it above anything I can find in German media.

He knows how to read those numbers and graphs.

His news is not much loved by many, he receives threats and repeatedly is target for intimidation attempts, his social media accounts got repeatedly blocked and switched off. Somebody or some people do not want him to tell the thigns he tells, not just on Corona, but especially on finance and economy things.

We seem to have a very good man over here, too, a professor Drosten, specilaist for Corona virusses with international credits and an impressive biography int he field, but since he is associated with advising the government now, this puts everything he says a bit under the suspicion of doubts, since this function necessarily binds his tongue and puts legal limits on what he is allowed to do and to say - and what not. Else, Drosten is a calm and very professional medical expert for the matter, his approach to how to delay Corona may work better than the approaches of other countries, we will see. The government at least usually listens to him and does what he says, although always with a one day delay. I would put more trust in his words however if he were not associated with the government job. But then maybe his influence on the going of things would be marginal, if even existent.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Traveller

And me gets called a pessimist... :LOL:


He is probably right. Think I stockpile more wine gum.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...]
When this all is kind of under control, it is high time to start playing extra-tough with China. They must pay for this, accidental escape or not. And they must be stopped. Their aggfressive grab for dominance, both economically and militarily, has become a danger for the rest of the world. The deaths we already have, are an act of war.

That.
I was already going to post something like this, it is the second time (we know of) "something" has escaped from the Wuhan laboratories.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And me gets called a pessimist... :LOL:

He is probably right. Think I stockpile more wine gum.

I'd say he's more of a realist than a pessimist. But he is also always advocating for people to work together and help their families, friends, and neighbors.

But I do think total martial law is coming to the US and elsewhere in an attempt to hold things together. The US National Guard is currently deploying everywhere, and even the regular US Army is standing by to deploy if needed.

The entire banking system is currently unwinding due to the pandemic, and economies around the world are failing. The US DJIA has already lost around 30% of its value in 2 weeks, and this thing is just getting started. Trump announced a $1 trillion aid package. The US Federal Reserve just used their last remaining ammo by lowering interest rates to zero. There is now nothing else they can do now but print, print, print money.

Expect probable hyperinflation, massive unemployment, and economic collapse worldwide if 'flattening the curve' lasts longer than 3 months.

On top of all this, most Americans have zero savings in the bank.

This collapse is going to make the 2008 shock look like a joke. Prepare for martial law, and possibly a complete breakdown of the system once workers stop showing up for work because they are not getting paid.

How's that for optimism?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Report from a nurse, starting 01:35. Heart-breaking.



Watch it. Get the message. Do it. Stay locked.

It most certainly is

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ it is them who cause a panic, and it is not worth a sh... . Stores plan their stock to sell a few weeks ahead, and it certainly takes time to adapt. There is no shortage of goods, right now it is those panicking hoarders who cause all the fuss

Agreed but the supermarkets could help by imposing quantity restrictions.

[Jimbuna]

Uncanny timing

Supermarkets have introduced strict limits on how many goods people can buy to try and curb stockpiling as the coronavirus pandemic escalates.

Sainsbury's and Asda have both said they will stop shoppers buying more than three of any particular food item.

Sainsbury's has also said it will prioritise vulnerable and elderly people for online deliveries.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51941987

[STEED]

^Meaningless as there is always a way to by pass these measures it is too late the horse has bolted the barn.