US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55679623

"I had conspiracy theorists and everyone you could think of yelling at me, saying, 'Why are you doing this, you're the traitor,'" Mr Hodges told radio station WAMU.

"We're not the traitors. We're the ones who saved Congress that day, and we'll do it as many times as necessary."

Despite fearing for his life, Mr Hodges says he decided not to use his gun on the crowd.

"I didn't want to be the guy who starts shooting, because I knew they had guns - we had been seizing guns all day," he told the Post.

One day, sooner or later, one guy in the battleline on any side will see a snake between the feet of the crowd, and pull his sword. Stuff happens.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by gap

No one is truly unbiased. When anyone narrates a fact, his narration is not the fact, but his interpretation of that fact. At least an encyclopedic project is bound not to tell total lies and not to add judgements.

That would depend on where they are getting their facts from. The editors may not lie but they can have an editorial bias.

Well yes, do you think they spend their time and their money for nothing?

Not avery good standard. One side always loses.

The matter is not only how much money you spend, but how you spend it.

So you think it was effective? Did it tipped the election in Trump's favor? If so do you have any proof?

While I don't believe everything in that dossier to be true or correct I don't think it can be compared to the plain lies by Trump & associates, but I will agree with you that it was a a misstep.

The only things that turned out to be true were things that were already public knowledge. Misstep is being kind. It was a blatant attempt to interfere with an election campaign and that interference carried over and had an effect on Trump's administration.

[gap]

Originally Posted by u crank

That would depend on where they are getting their facts from. The editors may not lie but they can have an editorial bias.

Did I deny that?

Everyone has his own biases. Not having them is nearly impossible. What really matters is being aware of that and, where objectiveness is important, striving to be as objective as possible. Again, striving to be objective doesn't mean being totally unbiased, but an effort must be made anyway, and that effort must be appreciated. This applies to us two, and I think it applies also to the redactor(s) of the Wiki article I quoted yesterday.

This discussion is carrying us away from our main topic though. At some point our respective biases might coincide, but in any case I recognize your fairness and I hope you to do similarly with me.

Originally Posted by u crank

Not avery good standard. One side always loses.

Not good at all. On the medium/long term everybody do lose (trust, hope, credibility, reputation, etc.). The last post by Jeff is a good example of that, and even a dull old coat as Sleepy Joe managing to take the second term away from a super-exuberant Donald Trump, is the demonstration that sometimes tricks can turn against their own inventor.

Originally Posted by u crank

So you think it was effective? Did it tipped the election in Trump's favor? If so do you have any proof?

Do you have a proof of the contrary? Does it really matter whether it was effective or not?

Elections were held, people voted, a president was elected, and that person was Trump. Period.
Sure, there was a big deal of mental conditioning going on. Lies were told from both sides, and at the end the most unscrupulous lier won. All the contenders "cheated" at the best of their possibilities, but the elections were valid. Once you accept to play a game with a set of rules, refusing to accept its outcome just because you have lost is very childish to the least.

When there is propaganda, political propaganda in our case, there is mental conditioning; that is no news, it has always been like this; it is the way human brain works, and how leaders exploit its mechanisms. The problem is that propaganda methods have become so refined that they now border on brain-washing.

Because of their many potentialities, internet and social networks have become the main weapon in the hand of brain washers. This is a problem we are bound to face soon or later. So far we didn't because it can be very profitable for the ones who can exploit it. It does not apply only to political propaganda, marketing is another field of application, but politicians are now becoming very proficient at using the new tools; they are getting every day more insolent in exploiting those tools for instillating lies, social hatred, fear, false promises, etc. The most proficient of them set new negative standards which are followed by their colleagues and used in a vicious spiral by their rivals as an excuse for their own misconducts.

I think Trump to be a brilliant and particularly unscrupulous propaganda maker, a true ace in his field, but never I thought that he is the one politician using unfair methods. The point is that he is also a braggart. One who is not able to accept the defeat and who is not used to keep his own instinct under control. Instinct is a quality, but at times it can be misleading. His remarkable talent is now crossing the line of sedition, and this is especially bad, for America and for all the democratic world. We are lucky that other leaders have not followed his example yet.

Originally Posted by u crank

Misstep is being kind.

You choose the most appropriate adjective. I really don't care.

I am not here for advocating the Democratic party

[ET2SN]

Don't hate me, hate my Youtube feed.

[bstanko6]

Only a few more days guys...

The worlds first mentally challenged president and his soon to be first female VP Kamala “Back doored into the Oval Office because the president is unfit to lead when no one wanted you in the primaries” Harris!

Where will they start the first conflict?

Has Biden come up with a better comprehensive plan that betters Trumps great economic progress?

[FeatsOfStrength]

As someone who voted for Joe Biden from outside the US, and have viewed most of what has happened the last 4 years from outside the US.. there's no way you can honestly say that the country is in a better position now than it was before Trump came into office.. It is worse off by every metric I can think of. Trump had a terrible foreign policy, and for the handful of things I agreed with him on that's maybe 2 out of 10,000 statements I've seen him make.

I'll be happy to see him consigned to the dustbin of history. America wasn't the same country last time I was there to that I left over a decade ago.

[Jimbuna]

Meanwhile...

Trump administration carries out 13th and final execution.

Fundraiser for multicultural group targeted by arsonists smashes targets
Blake Shelton defends Minimum Wage song amid 'tone deaf' criticism
Associated Press logoTrump administration carries out 13th and final execution

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (AP) — The Trump administration early Saturday carried out its 13th federal execution since July, an unprecedented run that concluded just five days before the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden — an opponent of the federal death penalty.

Dustin Higgs, convicted of ordering the killings of three women in a Maryland wildlife refuge in 1996, was the third to receive a lethal injection this week at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Indiana.

President Donald Trump’s Justice Department resumed federal executions last year following a 17-year hiatus. No president in more than 120 years had overseen as many federal executions.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/us/tr...out&li=AAnZ9Ug

[Catfish]

"US Capitol riot: police have long history of aiding neo-Nazis and extremists"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...azis-far-right

[u crank]

Originally Posted by gap

Did I deny that?

Everyone has his own biases. Not having them is nearly impossible. What really matters is being aware of that and, where objectiveness is important, striving to be as objective as possible. Again, striving to be objective doesn't mean being totally unbiased, but an effort must be made anyway, and that effort must be appreciated. This applies to us two, and I think it applies also to the redactor(s) of the Wiki article I quoted yesterday.

I think that everyone including you and me can take facts and spin them to suit our own bias. The facts are true but how they're presented can vary greatly. And people can do this without being aware that they are because many people are quite convinced that their view point is right. I'm not sure about you but how I combat this is to try and look at varying opinions on a subject since when it comes to politics it is almost impossible to find an objective opinion.

This discussion is carrying us away from our main topic though. At some point our respective biases might coincide, but in any case I recognize your fairness and I hope you to do similarly with me

I am enjoying our discussion very much.

Do you have a proof of the contrary?

I don't have proof. The only way to get that proof in this case would be to interview the millions of people that saw the Russian ads on Facebook and ask them if the ad effected how they voted. But logic suggests that if Hillary Clinton spent a far greater amount ($28 million to less than a million) on Facebook ads then that would nullify the Russian ads. But I don't know.

Does it really matter whether it was effective or not?

Only if someone is accusing Trump of colluding with the Russians to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. That may be evidence that he did.

Once you accept to play a game with a set of rules, refusing to accept its outcome just because you have lost is very childish to the least.

Agreed. I find it to be very hypocritical that Democrats accuse Trump of something that they were actively engaged in.

Nancy Pelosi
@SpeakerPelosi

May 16, 2017
Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.

It is unfortunate that people on both sides do this. Maybe they should just take turns.

[Catfish]

You can only make your mind up with "facts" available to you. You think you are informed, but you are not.
There are three possibilities:
1. Accept only one souce you want to believe according to your filter bubble (e.g. one of Murdoch's propaganda media, or Russia today, or any other)
2. Read all and make up your mind from several sources (not all do even that),
3. only believe in your own opinion and post your molehill view all along those social media.
Truth does not exist and you have no access anyway.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No chance.

Even if he would get impeached, and could not candidate again, he would still have his hands in the party brawl and still would have his mobs to play with.

As I wrote before in this thread.

The Danish Reporter said that Trump has no furture in Washington, he's political dead. The reporter said this a few days after the riot.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

"US Capitol riot: police have long history of aiding neo-Nazis and extremists"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...azis-far-right

Whats your point? neo-Nazis are everywhere. We can troll each other all day long and in the end it gets us nowhere. But I'm game, bring it on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/21/w...is-police.html

• She Called Police Over a Neo-Nazi Threat. But the Neo-Nazis Were Inside the Police.
  
  
  Death threats linked to police computers and the discovery of far-right chat groups in police departments across Germany have fed concerns about far-right infiltration.

Traveling for work and far from home, Seda Basay-Yildiz received a chilling fax at her hotel: “You filthy Turkish sow,” it read. “We will slaughter your daughter.”... Far-right extremism is resurgent in Germany, in ways that are new and very old, horrifying a country that prides itself on dealing honestly with its murderous past.

But I think its safe to say we shouldn't paint an entire force with such a broad brush as not all capitol police or German police are neo-nazis. In fact I'd bet the vast majority are law abiding, and just trying to get through the day.

[bstanko6]

@featsofstrength....

I think that’s why I liked Trump.

Too many decades has gone by where the US gave money to other countries or worried about foreign policy.

Trump focused on us.

During Obama time... he authorized Hillary Clinton to give hundreds of millions of dollars to Pakistan for “tourism” and assist them with infrastructure. Couple of months later we go there and kill bin laden because they were hiding him.

We give so much to other countries yet we still have homeless veterans walking around this country. That is unacceptable. Even Bush gave more to others than focus on us. Remember the soldier that asked Rumsfeld why they don’t have IED resistant humvees? No money... they gave it others. Sickening.

Trump focused on China paying its fair share, Saudi Arabia paying their fair share.

He set up a fund for several African American universities to receive millions of dollars of funding for the next 10 years. Which I applaud.

He not only walks into N Korea, which has not been done by an American president in a very long time, he is able to free US hostages there.

The Paris accords was lop sided, the US was footing most of the bill.

Again I never said he was a great speaker. I’ve said that in many posts. And he was never a politician, he was a businessman. He took the helm of this country with economy in mind first. I don’t blame him for that.

What makes me angry is that the Dems never gave the man one chance.

19 minutes into his inauguration, impeachment was filed for the false Russian collusion.

I remember his first presidential address with that evil Pelosi behind him ripping up her copy of his speech... real professional.

Trump was attacked every direction. The Dems should have tried to help him or make bipartisan deals, but they showed their true colors. They are thugs.

I just hope you guys see this too.

I hope you see the thugs have their puppet in the big chair. This is going to be a very bad 4 years. And that worries me.

Can any Biden fan here at least name a few worries for the Biden office these next four years?

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

Can any Biden fan here at least name a few worries for the Biden office these next four years?

There aren't any Biden fans here (no fan boys at least ha ha)

Just anti-Trump

Thou shalt not judge means Trump or Biden

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

There aren't any Biden fans here (no fan boys at least ha ha)

I'm not anybodies fan boy but I am willing to give Joe Biden every opportunity to be a success or failure. It's his party.