America's Cup

Skybird · 06-19-17, 04:20 AM

I know nothign about sailign, and never was into it, but the past days I occasionally watched TV coverage of the races between these two catamarans, and watched with growing fascination the different race track patterns both boats were circling into the water in search for the better wind. Also I like the boats.

I also know nothign about these boats, do not even know the name of their class, assuming they are not just "catamarans". And I am wondering. That the crew all the time change the side, probably is due to weight, but the sailors who are constantly turning those cranks like crazy - what exactly are they doing there? Do they drive a hidden propeller?

I have no clue what they are doing, since they are turnign the cranks all the time, always.

Whats it all about? Are they bored or try to keep warm?

Catfish · 06-19-17, 04:38 AM

^ Fascinating, yes.. they are almost flying, only tied to the water by fins and to have a resistance for cutting across. You have to stem your boat against the wind pressure, to be able to sail against the wind. Those new catamarans are indeed skimmers or surfers, not classic displacement boats like with the America's cup started initially.

Personally i do not like those catamarans, built for one race and then wrecked, all carbon fibre and as thin as possible, barely being able to survive one race. A lot of those crash, because they are built to the limit of what the material can take before breaking, and carbon also suffers from material fatigue after having taken a certain amount of beating.
I prefer displacement boats, slower but also (even much more) graceful.

The crew changes position to adjust weight and keep the "boat" from capsizing, also the more upright the hull is the faster it is in the water, theoretically (based on purpose and design of course).

Winches are used for trimming all kind of ropes to give the sail the best form for the existing wind, to be as fast as possible. It also depends on the course; while a sailing boat can of course run with the wind and at half wind, it can not directly sail against it, only crosswise.
Then the mast can be adjusted bending it forward or back via the main stays, the sails can be reefed, lowered or set, all needing winch action at some time.

A course of say 40 degrees against the wind is already considered as very good achievement, it all depends on the hull/fin/sail form, and stiffness of the materials used.
If your course is going directly against the wind which e.g. comes at you from 000 (North), you have to sail up some meters 40 degrees e.g. left/port at a course of 320 degrees, then tack ("go through the wind") and fall over to the other right/starboard side and sail on a new course of 040 degrees for a time. So in this case you are zig-zagging around your intended course line, to reach your destination.
The course against, with or whatever with the wind is not the real (compass) course, of course. (Are we on course? Off course, we are..

)

The windex at the mast top and also at half mast height with racing boats, tell you where the apparent wind is currently coming from, and the helmsman shouts his orders to the winchcrew, to adjust the sail. He sees how fast the boat is and feels the rudder's resistance, as the hull action.

So turning the winches is done to adjust to changing wind conditions, slightly changing course or harder turns, then tack and jibe.. On a race, this of course looks hectic.

Jimbuna · 06-19-17, 04:39 AM

The America's Cup and said competition was created by the British and is something we have never won

em2nought · 06-19-17, 04:47 AM

Is this what you're seeing?

It makes a sail "tighter" so it catches the wind better so the boat goes faster. Most often you can't go in the exact direction you want to go so you have to zig zag back and forth constantly switching which side of the mast your jib sail is on and cranking on those winches to pull in your jib sail

Catfish · 06-19-17, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The America's Cup and said competition was created by the British and is something we have never won

Well we could endow the "EU cup" and see how that goes...

The Cowes week is challenging enough...

vienna · 06-19-17, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Well we could endow the "EU cup" and see how that goes...

The Cowes week is challenging enough...

Brexit at sea...

<O>

Skybird · 06-19-17, 05:20 AM

em2naught,

the wenches I mean are operated by two men with both hands, like bicycle pedals. I doubt they are about trimming the sails, since the sails do not visibly change and the wenches are being operated ALL THE TIME, they are in constant movement, in one direction. Like pumps to keep water out.

Its also not about the swords I think, since I saw these beign dropped and lifted like dropping an anchor - too fast. And sometimes they even operate them like bicycle pedals indeed: http://www.juanpanews.com/wp-content...5f285082fa.jpg

Skybird · 06-19-17, 05:30 AM

It seems it is about providing electric energy. The guys at the wenches run generators that provide electricity that operates the foils and wing trimmers. Video at 2:20.

Why no batteries? LOL

Skybird · 06-19-17, 05:32 AM

100% flight time.

Skybird · 06-19-17, 05:42 AM

Rockstar · 06-19-17, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The America's Cup and said competition was created by the British and is something we have never won

and never will

GREAT AGAIN

em2nought · 06-19-17, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

em2naught,

the wenches I mean are operated by two men with both hands, like bicycle pedals. I doubt they are about trimming the sails, since the sails do not visibly change and the wenches are being operated ALL THE TIME, they are in constant movement, in one direction. Like pumps to keep water out.

Its also not about the swords I think, since I saw these beign dropped and lifted like dropping an anchor - too fast. And sometimes they even operate them like bicycle pedals indeed: http://www.juanpanews.com/wp-content...5f285082fa.jpg

My Hobie Cat didn't have any of that in 1984. lol Pretty impressive craft they have now.

Schroeder · 06-19-17, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

the wenches I mean are operated by two men with both hands

Are you sure you should post stuff on Subsim about wenches being operated by two men with both hands?

Aktungbby · 06-19-17, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by em2nought

Is this what you're seeing?

It makes a sail "tighter" so it catches the wind better so the boat goes faster. Most often you can't go in the exact direction you want to go so you have to zig zag back and forth constantly switching which side of the mast your jib sail is on and cranking on those winches to pull in your jib sail

ALLOW Me! up close and personal on one of the catalina's new winches where I'm the portside 'grinder' managing a 150% jib (fully deployed in a 20 knot wind...and a 3' swell

managing a 150% jib (fully deployed in a 20 knot wind) off Mare Island

B 4 performing serious steward duty; with what's left of my cramping tired hands with a corkscrew with my sta'brd 'grinder'

(with a libation to the sea-gods for our safety!) We're both too old to swim for it!

These BBYS are really dangerous and One British sailor, Andrew James Simpson,MBE an Olympic gold medalist for Swedish team Artemis Racing, died in a tragic accident after his boat capsized during testing in the San Francisco Bay. Crew members now carry air, knives, and body armor that can help save them in the event of an accident. Dagger boards allow for 40 knots (by meager comparison: the Catalina will do 8 knots on a 30-40 degree list which is fast enough imjo) or about 55 mph. ie: its own hull length every second! (Costs for the 2017 will actually be about half, due to the smaller boats that measure 50 feet instead of the previous 72 feet.) This is not sailing: this is flying! ... til you're not-kinda suddenlike!:

Skybird · 06-19-17, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Are you sure you should post stuff on Subsim about wenches being operated by two men with both hands?

Oh heck...

Isnt it amazing what I can do to this strange language if only I put my heart into it? LOL

I blame Catfish, he used first this new word that I did not knew, and then sent all those negative vibes that made me misspelling it.

06-19-17, 04:20 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,498 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	America's Cup I know nothign about sailign, and never was into it, but the past days I occasionally watched TV coverage of the races between these two catamarans, and watched with growing fascination the different race track patterns both boats were circling into the water in search for the better wind. Also I like the boats. I also know nothign about these boats, do not even know the name of their class, assuming they are not just "catamarans". And I am wondering. That the crew all the time change the side, probably is due to weight, but the sailors who are constantly turning those cranks like crazy - what exactly are they doing there? Do they drive a hidden propeller? I have no clue what they are doing, since they are turnign the cranks all the time, always. Whats it all about? Are they bored or try to keep warm? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-19-17, 04:38 AM	#2
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ Fascinating, yes.. they are almost flying, only tied to the water by fins and to have a resistance for cutting across. You have to stem your boat against the wind pressure, to be able to sail against the wind. Those new catamarans are indeed skimmers or surfers, not classic displacement boats like with the America's cup started initially. Personally i do not like those catamarans, built for one race and then wrecked, all carbon fibre and as thin as possible, barely being able to survive one race. A lot of those crash, because they are built to the limit of what the material can take before breaking, and carbon also suffers from material fatigue after having taken a certain amount of beating. I prefer displacement boats, slower but also (even much more) graceful. The crew changes position to adjust weight and keep the "boat" from capsizing, also the more upright the hull is the faster it is in the water, theoretically (based on purpose and design of course). Winches are used for trimming all kind of ropes to give the sail the best form for the existing wind, to be as fast as possible. It also depends on the course; while a sailing boat can of course run with the wind and at half wind, it can not directly sail against it, only crosswise. Then the mast can be adjusted bending it forward or back via the main stays, the sails can be reefed, lowered or set, all needing winch action at some time. A course of say 40 degrees against the wind is already considered as very good achievement, it all depends on the hull/fin/sail form, and stiffness of the materials used. If your course is going directly against the wind which e.g. comes at you from 000 (North), you have to sail up some meters 40 degrees e.g. left/port at a course of 320 degrees, then tack ("go through the wind") and fall over to the other right/starboard side and sail on a new course of 040 degrees for a time. So in this case you are zig-zagging around your intended course line, to reach your destination. The course against, with or whatever with the wind is not the real (compass) course, of course. (Are we on course? Off course, we are.. ) The windex at the mast top and also at half mast height with racing boats, tell you where the apparent wind is currently coming from, and the helmsman shouts his orders to the winchcrew, to adjust the sail. He sees how fast the boat is and feels the rudder's resistance, as the hull action. So turning the winches is done to adjust to changing wind conditions, slightly changing course or harder turns, then tack and jibe.. On a race, this of course looks hectic. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-19-17 at 05:22 AM.*

06-19-17, 04:39 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,207 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The America's Cup and said competition was created by the British and is something we have never won __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-19-17, 04:47 AM	#4
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,269 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Is this what you're seeing? It makes a sail "tighter" so it catches the wind better so the boat goes faster. Most often you can't go in the exact direction you want to go so you have to zig zag back and forth constantly switching which side of the mast your jib sail is on and cranking on those winches to pull in your jib sail __________________ Looks like we need a Lemon Law for Presidents now! DNC sold us a dud, and they knew it.

06-19-17, 05:20 AM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,498 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	em2naught, the wenches I mean are operated by two men with both hands, like bicycle pedals. I doubt they are about trimming the sails, since the sails do not visibly change and the wenches are being operated ALL THE TIME, they are in constant movement, in one direction. Like pumps to keep water out. Its also not about the swords I think, since I saw these beign dropped and lifted like dropping an anchor - too fast. And sometimes they even operate them like bicycle pedals indeed: http://www.juanpanews.com/wp-content...5f285082fa.jpg __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-19-17, 05:30 AM	#8
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,498 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	It seems it is about providing electric energy. The guys at the wenches run generators that provide electricity that operates the foils and wing trimmers. Video at 2:20. Why no batteries? LOL __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-19-17, 05:32 AM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,498 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	100% flight time. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-19-17, 05:42 AM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,498 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	__________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.