Gentlemen, I need your help - Page 3

jadervason · 04-25-10, 09:11 PM

That's a thought, a 10-tube Zulu class loaded with 8 533mm anti-submarine missiles, just sitting there at 200 meters listening and bogarting 30 some miles of territory with nuclear or merely guided ordnance...

TLAM Strike · 04-25-10, 09:32 PM

The sonar on the Zulu was junk suitable only for anti-surface warfare. It wasn't until the 1980's the the Russians decided that ASW might be a good mission for Subs.

I can't get that text to stop being underlined!

jadervason · 04-25-10, 09:56 PM

I guess SUBSIM has automatic emphasis-adding software.

Now, you're probably right, But I figured hydrophones are hydrophones. I guess you wouldn't get range or probably elevation with Type XXI hydrophones/sonar though...but they were quite sensitive.

TLAM Strike · 04-25-10, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadervason

I guess SUBSIM has automatic emphasis-adding software.

Now, you're probably right, But I figured hydrophones are hydrophones. I guess you wouldn't get range or probably elevation with Type XXI hydrophones/sonar though...but they were quite sensitive.

Sensitive? They got nothing on this, look at how big a hydrophone is needed in the 50s to hunt submarines!

They had to remove four of the bow tubes to install that. That was a SSK refit as part of the GUPPY program to upgrade old Fleet Boats.

jadervason · 04-25-10, 10:28 PM

Well, was that kit designed for listening for smokeboats (as you colorfully refer to them) or nukeyalar subs? General consensus is, "yeah you'd need Superman's eardrums to hear an electric boat" (bets are off if he's in another sound layer), meanwhile the nuclear sub(s) of that day were quite loud and louder still if they used that excess power for speed.

TLAM Strike · 04-25-10, 10:45 PM

I think this was covered in that Link I posted. The idea was to place SSKs in a line across the GIUK gap where their sonar would use convergence zones (30 NM sound bounces) to hear approaching subs, either they would hear the pumps of a Nuc or the diesels of a Smokeboat when its forced to snort (couple a hours a day to maintain a battery charge).

If a Smokeboat went silent the SSK would have a hard time to search for it, but it could just wait for it to snort again (a diesel back then could only make around a 100 NM on batteries going dead slow). The diesel boat snorts again and one of the other SSKs in the picket line detects it and calls for a P-2V or P-3 for the kill.

This job a eventually replaced by SOSUS and SURTASS.

jadervason · 04-25-10, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

I think this was covered in that Link I posted. The idea was to place SSKs in a line across the GIUK gap where their sonar would use convergence zones (30 NM sound bounces) to hear approaching subs, either they would hear the pumps of a Nuc or the diesels of a Smokeboat when its forced to snort (couple a hours a day to maintain a battery charge).

If a Smokeboat went silent the SSK would have a hard time to search for it, but it could just wait for it to snort again (a diesel back then could only make around a 100 NM on batteries going dead slow). The diesel boat snorts again and one of the other SSKs in the picket line detects it and calls for a P-2V or P-3 for the kill.

This job a eventually replaced by SOSUS and SURTASS.

So then our argument comes full circle, in which a Zulu class could almost certainly detect a snorkeling Zulu class, ginormous snout or no. Getting those 8 SUBROCskis on target is a different matter. Whether it could detect a nuclear boat is dubious and even unlikely.

I suspect you would know better than I, but my sources at least indicate the Type XXI and family could go 300+ NM on their batteries. However, that is a span across several days, and if they snorted once per night as you suggest they might be more vulnerable.

To think, you complained about the drag of the Zulu's bridge, look at the nose of that thing!

TLAM Strike · 04-25-10, 11:29 PM

Wait... that SSK bow is drag with purpose!

If you want something more streamlined check out the Fleet Snorkel conversion...

... still pack'in more sonar than the Zulu...

jadervason · 04-25-10, 11:40 PM

Why must you hate the Zulu so?

My cannons will cheer me up.

DakkaDakkaDakkaDakka! DakkaDakkaDakkaDakka!

Shot your snorkel off, Strike. Won't be complaining about that enclosed bridge for a while!

TLAM Strike · 04-26-10, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadervason

Why must you hate the Zulu so?

Because the Whiskey was an all around more versatile sub. There were guided missile, and radar picket versions plus a fuel cell and SS-N-16 SUBROC test bed. Also it was widely exported.

The only major sub-class of the Zulu was the one armed with a pair of Scuds.

msxyz · 04-29-10, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Hay I got old GMAX working...

Here are a few pics of the Zulu interior I never finished...

It looks kinda strange since I removed every poly you would not see from the inside. But you get the picture of what I was going for...

Great work! Why did you model the interiors of a Zulu? Was it for a total conversion MOD?

TLAM Strike · 04-29-10, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msxyz

Great work! Why did you model the interiors of a Zulu? Was it for a total conversion MOD?

It was for a game called "Virtual Sailor" but I lost intrest in it before I finished the interior for the Zulu.

04-25-10, 09:32 PM	#32
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	The sonar on the Zulu was junk suitable only for anti-surface warfare. It wasn't until the 1980's the the Russians decided that ASW might be a good mission for Subs. I can't get that text to stop being underlined! __________________

04-25-10, 10:45 PM	#36
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	I think this was covered in that Link I posted. The idea was to place SSKs in a line across the GIUK gap where their sonar would use convergence zones (30 NM sound bounces) to hear approaching subs, either they would hear the pumps of a Nuc or the diesels of a Smokeboat when its forced to snort (couple a hours a day to maintain a battery charge). If a Smokeboat went silent the SSK would have a hard time to search for it, but it could just wait for it to snort again (a diesel back then could only make around a 100 NM on batteries going dead slow). The diesel boat snorts again and one of the other SSKs in the picket line detects it and calls for a P-2V or P-3 for the kill. This job a eventually replaced by SOSUS and SURTASS. __________________

04-25-10, 11:29 PM	#38
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Wait... that SSK bow is drag with purpose! If you want something more streamlined check out the Fleet Snorkel conversion... ... still pack'in more sonar than the Zulu... __________________

04-25-10, 09:11 PM	#31
jadervason Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 69 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	That's a thought, a 10-tube Zulu class loaded with 8 533mm anti-submarine missiles, just sitting there at 200 meters listening and bogarting 30 some miles of territory with nuclear or merely guided ordnance...

04-25-10, 09:56 PM	#33
jadervason Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 69 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I guess SUBSIM has automatic emphasis-adding software. Now, you're probably right, But I figured hydrophones are hydrophones. I guess you wouldn't get range or probably elevation with Type XXI hydrophones/sonar though...but they were quite sensitive.

04-25-10, 10:28 PM	#35
jadervason Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 69 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Well, was that kit designed for listening for smokeboats (as you colorfully refer to them) or nukeyalar subs? General consensus is, "yeah you'd need Superman's eardrums to hear an electric boat" (bets are off if he's in another sound layer), meanwhile the nuclear sub(s) of that day were quite loud and louder still if they used that excess power for speed.

04-25-10, 11:40 PM	#39
jadervason Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 69 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Why must you hate the Zulu so? My cannons will cheer me up. DakkaDakkaDakkaDakka! DakkaDakkaDakkaDakka! Shot your snorkel off, Strike. Won't be complaining about that enclosed bridge for a while!