NYGM 3 Super-mod (Current: 3.6 F, January 13th 2015)

Eikson · 06-25-19, 09:59 AM

Sorry, it's me again.

I get some weird behavior regarding depth charges. Even when they are dead on, they don't damage hull integrity. They can cause major flooding and destroy compartments/machinery, but hull integrity stays at 100%.

This is only the case for the regular (dropped) DCs. It does not happen with Hedgehogs or other fancy equipment, as they correctly damage the hull.

I cannot find info in the manuals that says that this is a wanted feature. I first thought one of the many mods caused it, but it also happens in this setup:

NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6F
NYGM_2017A
ARB WideGui 1920x1080

To make extra sure there wasnt a mod messing with it, I reinstalled a clean NYGM 2.5, as that version is the one containing the depthcharges files. The zones.cfg in the most recent NYGM patch is also clean and fresh.

Any idea what might cause this?

Thank you all very much.

Best,

Eikson

John Pancoast · 06-25-19, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eikson

Sorry, it's me again.

I get some weird behavior regarding depth charges. Even when they are dead on, they don't damage hull integrity. They can cause major flooding and destroy compartments/machinery, but hull integrity stays at 100%.

This is only the case for the regular (dropped) DCs. It does not happen with Hedgehogs or other fancy equipment, as they correctly damage the hull.

I cannot find info in the manuals that says that this is a wanted feature. I first thought one of the many mods caused it, but it also happens in this setup:

NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6F
NYGM_2017A
ARB WideGui 1920x1080

To make extra sure there wasnt a mod messing with it, I reinstalled a clean NYGM 2.5, as that version is the one containing the depthcharges files. The zones.cfg in the most recent NYGM patch is also clean and fresh.

Any idea what might cause this?

Thank you all very much.

Best,

Eikson

Haven't seen that myself, but possibly the damage occurred without major damage to the hull; enough to change the integrity color bar ?
It can stay full integrity down to 90%, minor damage included.

Eikson · 06-25-19, 01:25 PM

Thanks for your reply. In ARB the Hull Integrity is shown in percent (like in the base game, not like in stock NYGM) and it is not affected at all. It's not like it happened once, I did around 10 runs of the U-505 mission at it was always the same. Bullets, grenades, hedgehogs all damage the hull integrity, while depth charges do not.

I'll do a complete reinstall, maybe some file somewhere is messed up.

John Pancoast · 06-25-19, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eikson

Thanks for your reply. In ARB the Hull Integrity is shown in percent (like in the base game, not like in stock NYGM) and it is not affected at all. It's not like it happened once, I did around 10 runs of the U-505 mission at it was always the same. Bullets, grenades, hedgehogs all damage the hull integrity, while depth charges do not.

I'll do a complete reinstall, maybe some file somewhere is messed up.

I'm wondering if the ARB mod somehow affects things, but wouldn't know how it could.
I don't use it, and the 505 mission for my NYGM install results in expected damage/destruction in tests I've done in the past.

Eikson · 06-27-19, 05:01 AM

After having quite a blast running the U-505 mission over and over again I think there are just a few oddities with the damage model now and then (might also be a stock game issue).

I ran dozens of tests with all sub types and different mod setups that went from just NYGM to the extensive list you'll see at the bottom.

What I found was:

1) All "impact weapons" (shells, hedgehogs, bullets) work fine. The hitbox for the sub seems to be a little off in some cases, where hedgehogs detonate without hitting your boat or where they float through your boat without detonating. I dont know whether this is the game simulating duds or whether it's just a collision detection issue.

2) Depth charges work properly most of the time. Sometimes hits that should have taken the sub out don't do enough damage. Maybe this is just the game being nice or faulty proximity simulation. Hard to say. Contact hits, where the charge lands on your deck, seem to work fine. One hit of that kind was usually enough to kill the sub.

3) Ramming is odd. I've had a destroyer run into my periscope, pushing the entire boat to the side with zero damage to anything. This leads to the weird situation that (without hedgehogs) staying at periscope depth or a few meters deeper is the safest option, as the depth charges detonate below you and the destroyers rarely aim to ram your turret, as they usually do a slight turn beforehand. Of course this is kind of gamey and I wouldn't do it in a campaign, just wanted to point it out.

Again, all this also holds for my tests of just NYGM without any additional mods.

I've been careful to make sure that the other mods do not overwrite any files that deal with collision/damage/zones etc.

I'd be happy to hear about your experiences. The U-505 mission allows testing the damage functions easily.

Best,

Eikson

My list:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 3\MODS]

NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6F
NYGM_2017A
MFM-Interim-Beta
MFM-Interim-Beta_NYGM
Lighthouses and Entrance Points for NYGM3.6F beta
Harbor Traffic Add-In
Das Boot Gramophone music
German Hits Collection
Haunting Atlantic Wind
Racerboy_SH4_Effects_for_SH3_2_03
SH3 oggvorbis2
Sh3_volumetric_clouds&fog_V2.2
SH-5 Water for SH-3 16 Km V84
Rapt0r's Uniforms V2.0 [Grey]
Rapt0r's Uniforms V2.0 [Grey - All Leather] Patch
Dertien No Rank On Crew
EAX_Sound_Sim_SH3
TKSS18 German U-Boats Compilation
U-Boat IXC (Skin 3 (U-532)) Turm 1-2-3
TKSS German U-Boats Compilation FuMO_Fix_SNS
Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME)
Extra_files_for_Hsie_patch_V16B1
ARB WideGui 1920x1080 NYGM
raobf Fix
O2-Gauges v2
New U-Boat Guns Fixed Reworked (for German U-Boats Compilation)

John Pancoast · 06-27-19, 07:36 AM

Awhile back, I had similar test collision experiences with NYGM and GWX both.
While I've since become satisfied that escort ramming works well sub collision-wise most of the time, getting hit while at periscope depth by a merchant never seems to cause damage of any kind. Tested a merchant out again just recently in NYGM; it knocked me down twenty meters. Nary a scratch.
Another facet that AOD handles much better.

Regarding escort weapons performance, I've noticed similar as you. I think it could be improved (along with many AI aspects), but at least it causes damage when it should.

Regarding staying at shallow depth, I seem to recall that was an actual tactic if one had the nerves for it. Asdic, etc. couldn't read that shallow at the time.
But of course, they had to actually worry about collision damage unlike the game at times.

All in all, I believe the megamod makers have done the best they could with the game's limitations and SH3 is great fun to play.

But I also believe AOD is a better sim in reference to overall AI, damage modeling, etc.

John Pancoast · 06-27-19, 07:49 AM

Here is a thread of mine about ramming:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...hlight=ramming

06-27-19, 07:36 AM	#6
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,193 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 4	Awhile back, I had similar test collision experiences with NYGM and GWX both. While I've since become satisfied that escort ramming works well sub collision-wise most of the time, getting hit while at periscope depth by a merchant never seems to cause damage of any kind. Tested a merchant out again just recently in NYGM; it knocked me down twenty meters. Nary a scratch. Another facet that AOD handles much better. Regarding escort weapons performance, I've noticed similar as you. I think it could be improved (along with many AI aspects), but at least it causes damage when it should. Regarding staying at shallow depth, I seem to recall that was an actual tactic if one had the nerves for it. Asdic, etc. couldn't read that shallow at the time. But of course, they had to actually worry about collision damage unlike the game at times. All in all, I believe the megamod makers have done the best they could with the game's limitations and SH3 is great fun to play. But I also believe AOD is a better sim in reference to overall AI, damage modeling, etc. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper

06-27-19, 07:49 AM	#7
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,193 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 4	Here is a thread of mine about ramming: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...hlight=ramming __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper

06-25-19, 09:59 AM	#1
Eikson Seaman Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 32 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Sorry, it's me again. I get some weird behavior regarding depth charges. Even when they are dead on, they don't damage hull integrity. They can cause major flooding and destroy compartments/machinery, but hull integrity stays at 100%. This is only the case for the regular (dropped) DCs. It does not happen with Hedgehogs or other fancy equipment, as they correctly damage the hull. I cannot find info in the manuals that says that this is a wanted feature. I first thought one of the many mods caused it, but it also happens in this setup: NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version NYGM3_New NYGM3_6F NYGM_2017A ARB WideGui 1920x1080 To make extra sure there wasnt a mod messing with it, I reinstalled a clean NYGM 2.5, as that version is the one containing the depthcharges files. The zones.cfg in the most recent NYGM patch is also clean and fresh. Any idea what might cause this? Thank you all very much. Best, Eikson

06-25-19, 01:25 PM	#3
Eikson Seaman Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 32 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Thanks for your reply. In ARB the Hull Integrity is shown in percent (like in the base game, not like in stock NYGM) and it is not affected at all. It's not like it happened once, I did around 10 runs of the U-505 mission at it was always the same. Bullets, grenades, hedgehogs all damage the hull integrity, while depth charges do not. I'll do a complete reinstall, maybe some file somewhere is messed up.

06-27-19, 05:01 AM	#5
Eikson Seaman Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 32 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	After having quite a blast running the U-505 mission over and over again I think there are just a few oddities with the damage model now and then (might also be a stock game issue). I ran dozens of tests with all sub types and different mod setups that went from just NYGM to the extensive list you'll see at the bottom. What I found was: 1) All "impact weapons" (shells, hedgehogs, bullets) work fine. The hitbox for the sub seems to be a little off in some cases, where hedgehogs detonate without hitting your boat or where they float through your boat without detonating. I dont know whether this is the game simulating duds or whether it's just a collision detection issue. 2) Depth charges work properly most of the time. Sometimes hits that should have taken the sub out don't do enough damage. Maybe this is just the game being nice or faulty proximity simulation. Hard to say. Contact hits, where the charge lands on your deck, seem to work fine. One hit of that kind was usually enough to kill the sub. 3) Ramming is odd. I've had a destroyer run into my periscope, pushing the entire boat to the side with zero damage to anything. This leads to the weird situation that (without hedgehogs) staying at periscope depth or a few meters deeper is the safest option, as the depth charges detonate below you and the destroyers rarely aim to ram your turret, as they usually do a slight turn beforehand. Of course this is kind of gamey and I wouldn't do it in a campaign, just wanted to point it out. Again, all this also holds for my tests of just NYGM without any additional mods. I've been careful to make sure that the other mods do not overwrite any files that deal with collision/damage/zones etc. I'd be happy to hear about your experiences. The U-505 mission allows testing the damage functions easily. Best, Eikson My list: Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157 [C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 3\MODS] NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version NYGM3_New NYGM3_6F NYGM_2017A MFM-Interim-Beta MFM-Interim-Beta_NYGM Lighthouses and Entrance Points for NYGM3.6F beta Harbor Traffic Add-In Das Boot Gramophone music German Hits Collection Haunting Atlantic Wind Racerboy_SH4_Effects_for_SH3_2_03 SH3 oggvorbis2 Sh3_volumetric_clouds&fog_V2.2 SH-5 Water for SH-3 16 Km V84 Rapt0r's Uniforms V2.0 [Grey] Rapt0r's Uniforms V2.0 [Grey - All Leather] Patch Dertien No Rank On Crew EAX_Sound_Sim_SH3 TKSS18 German U-Boats Compilation U-Boat IXC (Skin 3 (U-532)) Turm 1-2-3 TKSS German U-Boats Compilation FuMO_Fix_SNS Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME) Extra_files_for_Hsie_patch_V16B1 ARB WideGui 1920x1080 NYGM raobf Fix O2-Gauges v2 New U-Boat Guns Fixed Reworked (for German U-Boats Compilation)