UK Politics Thread

[Jimbuna]

That may be more difficult than first thought. I'm reading articles mentioning Biden putting pressure on Boris to sort things out.

[Skybird]

You just need to obey the EU's demands on Ireland as written down and signed in that treaty.

Biden said that already during his campaign. No trade deal with the US if the Irish issue is settled such that new violence errupts. So, Johnson hardly can be surprised.

I seem to recall that Biden's family has Irish roots. For the UK he favours obedience to the EU over the risk of the Irish violence coming back, if that are the choices.

[Catfish]

The EU's demands? What about England's demands? The EU acted in (part of) Ireland's interest of course, how shocking. Ireland's interests have not been on any agenda for centuries.

[Skybird]

The EU demands, as demanded to be put down in writing in that treaty.



No sovereign nation can accept to fulfill those conditions and terms without mocking itself. What made Johnson think he could get around it later on, let grass grow over it, will forever be his perosnaol secret, but in brussel the champagne bottles got emptied when he signed this treaty with these demands on Ireland.



Absolutely stupid. And it was toi be kinown from bveginning on, and I said it since years. It takes no rocket scientist to see it.



If I were the UK, I would declare the whole treaty nill and void and cancel it within 6 months, take all the flak and blame and consequences, and call it a day regarding the continent. Relatiosn with the EU are toxic any poisoned anyway, and they will remain to be that for long time to come. There is no clean way out of this self-made less. The world will note that the Brits are quick in signing and then unsubscriubing form teatries, so the next idiot showing up in white hall thiking he can sign a stupid treaty and then just ignore it instead of just not signing it from beginning on, should get led to that certain prime place at the wall where the view is unobstructed and where there is plenty of free space for the feet and legs to stand comfortably, and shot.



They act as if the Irish fairy tale buster has just popped up a few weeks ago. Its the elephant in the room since several YEARS...!

[Jimbuna]

A group of Conservative rebel MPs has been thwarted in its bid to overturn £4bn of government cuts to the overseas aid budget.

They had suggested returning spending from 0.5% to 0.7% of national income next year through a bill dealing with the UK's new research agency.

But the proposal was ruled inadmissible by Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle, meaning it will not be put to a vote.

However, he called on ministers to give MPs an "effective" vote on the issue.

Sir Lindsay said the rebels' amendment was not within the remit of the law they wanted to change - meaning it could not be allowed.

Despite this, he said ministers should give the Commons "the respect it deserves" and find a way to allow MPs an "effective decision" on the target.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-57389289

[mapuc]

We discuss EU a lot in this UK-Politics thread

I will therefore post an translated article from a Danish newspaper.

"
EU countries have committed themselves to pursuing a common foreign policy that is intergovernmental. Denmark does not have a reservation regarding foreign policy and is therefore also involved in the area. Foreign policy decisions in the EU must be taken unanimously.

However, the Liberal Party wants to change the latter. The Liberal Party's EU rapporteur, Kim Valentin, says that the party wants to introduce a qualified majority to strengthen the EU's foreign policy. This means that all countries - incl. Denmark - will lose their veto.

If this is introduced, Denmark may be forced to support a foreign policy, which we have voted against in the EU, because a qualified majority consisting of Germany, France and other EU-enthusiastic countries have voted yes.

According to the Liberal Party's rapporteur, Denmark will not be weakened by losing its veto. On the contrary, we become stronger
"

Markus

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

We discuss EU a lot in this UK-Politics thread

Not me bringing this up, usually all things turning out 'not so nice' are blamed on the EU, e.g. outcome and problems of brexit or such

Foreign policy decisions in the EU must be taken unanimously.

Yes, if all agree this should become a standard. Like in the UK b.t.w.

If this is introduced, Denmark may be forced to support a foreign policy, which we have voted against in the EU, because a qualified majority consisting of Germany, France and other EU-enthusiastic countries have voted yes.

OMG imagine if Scotland and Ireland voted against independence because England said it was the only way to all stay in the EU, and what happened to those countries when a small majority in England voted to leave.

Accepting unanimous votes can be tricky.. and we can also discuss danish matters here that are not entirely danish
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-...rkel/100180282

[Skybird]

The need to decide in unity often was the last remaining safety saving European states form getting plowed under by opportunistic profiteers wanting to benefit from unwanted decisions in their favour, from money and economy, to migration and ideology.



I fear the day when simple majority decisions are enough when the states wanting to suck more in from their milk cow states that are net payers, or who want more centralised and EU statehood, can push this through just by clumping together and forming a rat pack biting those who have to pay for it or have to give up themselves. These things always work only at one direciton, its always only a one-lane street, and we can see it with the Euro already, where the net payers more and more lost their options in last years to block demands by net recievers for increasing budgets, giving the ECB ever more power it is by treaties not legitimated to hold, and to collectivise debts.


Fans of big state and deep state of course love simple majority, it gives ever so more power to the populists on the pro-EU side of things. Effective resistence to the block is no more possible then. Applause for this execution of unwanted resistence! brussels prevails!



Its exactly this inherent issue that makes me supporting Brexit and hoping that it becomes a successful challenge to the EU, motivating others to confront the block, too. Britain. Switzerland. Norway and Iceland said to be increaisngly unhappy. Right wing rising in many countries of the block in reaction to the ever growing eagerness of the eU to turn into one continental superstate and national parliaments having nothign to say anymore, rendering voters meaningless. They already are just nodding machines for over 90% of daily business.



Because what meaning has an election for an operetta parliament where several hundred million people should/could vote for other people from other countries about whose political estblishmenets they know nothing and about whose politicians they know not much as well? Its a perverting of democracy which originally was meant to self-adminster smallest possible communities at the very local, regional basis, at the very smallest cell imaginablee for economic/political adminstration: the "deme", consisting of as small an entity as even just one single farm. The eU wants to become the exact, the utmost opposite of this real meaning of democracy. It wants to abuse it as an alibi. Like China does. Like Putin does. Like Turkey does. They all have elections. They all talk of freedom and democracy. They all say "for the people".



Now it is up to the Europeans to swallow the very same poison pills. And those who hope they will get more money from it than they give into it, will love the idea. And demagogues of the the sickest kind will climb the ladders on the power hierarchies, becasue the more unscrupulous you cheta and lie and the smellier you stink the more entzsiastic people beoeuive youk, becasue they want to beleive all the fairy tales of miracles and wonder, glory and wekath, freedom and "the heavens pay for it".



Stupid germans. Damn freaking stupid Germans. Always on the wrong side of history and things. They seem to have a gene for it. I could pull my hair out over Germans, if I still would have some hair.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The need to decide in unity often was the last remaining safety saving European states form getting plowed under by opportunistic profiteers wanting to benefit from unwanted decisions in their favour, from money and economy, to migration and ideology.

Well, if it is about Germany, it profits heavily from the Eu, as did the UK. Logical that Germany does not want to change much as long as the small "profiteers" do not really spoil the wins. As soon as they do .. not yet though. Also funny how Greece instantly pulls out the Nazi club when they see their model of tax fraud challenged by the majority of the EU.

"Opportunistic profiteers", may i remind you it was just of all those who initiated and executed 'brexit', never the "man from the street". How utterly "democratic" if the media are owned by the very supporters and being used as a weapon, when the medium itself becomes the message and not any content, or unwanted "truth".

The EZB policy is what every nation or 'kingdom' does and has done, to master a crisis: master it. And print money if necessary. Nothing extaordinary, instead the spending saved the ahem 'behind' of a lot of companies, and thus jobs. What is a bit of inflation over years against a complete instant downfall? Ah yes, you would prefer the latter.

Fans of big state and deep state of course love simple majority, it gives ever so more power to the populists on the pro-EU side of things.

I would reluctantly note that that it is the right wing, brexiters, anti vaxxers and generally rather dumb persons (sorry, but not really sorry) who are quite populist in the last years; the EU to a much lesser degree (if at all).

And oh yes the government is so bad and all the unhappy folks would have protested, but it was going to rain, and I cannot be bothered to go into politics myself to change things because i am too lazy and others do it better. But complain and protest i will, so much more fun!

Without the EU the UK would have to face a much stronger wind blowing, be sure. But then it seems this is what you want? Let England happily join the WTO and forget what Australia's minister had said about "things leave a lot to be desired", in comparison with something like the EU. "[...] if the UK is seeking to negotiate a future trade arrangement with the EU on "Australian terms" this would be similar to, though not exactly the same as, a "no deal" on "WTO terms".
Only England's yellow press sees this different, and frankly no one gives a "$h!ß what they write.

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

Thank you Catfish and Skybird.

Your answer was interesting. While reading it I came to a kind of a conclusion.
We NEED a EU-thread.

EU affect many of us here on this great forum in one way or the other.

Markus

[Catfish]

^ and i thought this one is the real (anti-)EU thread

[Jimbuna]

I found your post (the one above Catfish) most insightful and in kilter with my understanding and I'll also respect your deletion and leave it alone

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Yes, if all agree this should become a standard. Like in the UK b.t.w.
OMG imagine if Scotland and Ireland voted against independence because England said it was the only way to all stay in the EU, and what happened to those countries when a small majority in England voted to leave.

?? Wasn't there a majority among the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland to remain in EU ??

Here I'm thinking Does EU see UK as one or do they see Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales as free countries, who are tied together by some law/rule with Britain.

When it return I will post it here or in a new thread-Forgot what I wanted to write

Markus

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

?? Wasn't there a majority among the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland to remain in EU ??

Exactly. And what happened?

As posted before