Wuhan virus 2020

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

The sooner we can all get back to normal, the sooner we get back to normal.

Hate to break it to you...COVID is here to stay. This is the normal.

[mapuc]

....and it's going to mutate giving the scientist grey hair.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

....and it's going to mutate giving the scientist grey hair.

Markus

Well...job security at the very least.

[ET2SN]

Hate to break it to you, but COVID isn't going to kill me.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Hate to break it to you, but COVID isn't going to kill me.

And that my friend is the best outcome I could hope for!

[ET2SN]

Well, make no mistake, at some point the rest of us will opt to throw you out of the lifeboat.
Many already have and they have no sympathy for the chowder heads who refuse to get the vaccine.

[MaDef]

The sooner we can all get back to normal, the sooner we get back to normal.

The powers that be don't want that, if they did, their "mandates" and recommendations would be based on common sense of which they have very little if any.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Well, make no mistake, at some point the rest of us will opt to throw you out of the lifeboat.
Many already have and they have no sympathy for the chowder heads who refuse to get the vaccine.

Sorry friend that's not how it works. I did not ask for your sympathy.

[ET2SN]

Consider for a moment that there are very few memorials for Eff-ups.

Off the top of my head there's only Mao. Stalin had some but they were quietly taken down after he died.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Consider for a moment that there are very few memorials for Eff-ups.

Off the top of my head there's only Mao. Stalin had some but they were quietly taken down after he died.

Now now, let's not start calling me a eff-up.

[August]

Reading this thread makes me want to get covid, again, then start chasing down the forum vaccine nazis and hocking a huge loogies at them, right in the face mask. Is it wrong to feel this way?

You got your precious shot that apparently protects you less and less with every press release. Stop trying to justify your decision by forcing everyone else to take it too. Both the vaccinated and un-vaccinated may still rue their decisions at some point but if the latter is forced into taking these drugs now and later on we find out there are long term side effects they are going to be rightfully pissed off about it.

As for these new variants.

It took the drug companies from march to august of 2020 to create vaccines against covid. They've known about the delta variant since dec of 2020 and Lambda since August of that year. Why are there no vaccines targeted for those variants yet?

Are the original vaccines with their fading effectiveness all we are ever going to see?

[mapuc]

My dear friends it doesn't help us cherry picking on each others.

There are members who has taken the shot for a reason
There are members who do not take the shot for a reason
There are members who await before taking the shot for a reason

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

My dear friends it doesn't help us cherry picking on each others.

There are members who has taken the shot for a reason
There are members who do not take the shot for a reason
There are members who await before taking the shot for a reason

Markus

All good reasons.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

My dear friends it doesn't help us cherry picking on each others.

There are members who has taken the shot for a reason
There are members who do not take the shot for a reason
There are members who await before taking the shot for a reason

Markus

Heck, how much longer do people need to wait? We will have a breat summer, yeah, sure. But at their pace I wonder whether it will be 2024 or 2025, or even later.



I, like many others, would not care if some do not care for getting vaccinated. Where I start to care is when somebody makes a choice that is not in its consequences limited to himself, but if he expects, almost sentences others to share the risk for them that he had decided to take for himself. If somebody for example chooses to ride on a motorbike fast and not wearing a helmet, I do not care (I would only demand that the common health insurrance that i also have to pay into, must not pay his treatment and that social insurrance that I also must pay into must to feed his family if he has an accident and gets insured or kills himself.) You have this principle in quite some insurrances, don't you: they pay if you need to compensate for something you have caused accidentally, but if you intentionally caused havoc, or negligent, they do not pay or you have to contribute a share yourself to their compensation payments to the other.

The other has no right to demand me to pay for the consequences of his choices made, and if he would even demand me or my parents to also ride bicycle without helmet to take the risks ourselves that he hasd chosen for himself, agfain I would reject that. My soldiarity for the brutla egoism of the other ends right there: where his freedom is abused by him to turn it into simply brutal egoism. Too many, very many, say "Its my freedom!" but what they really mean is taking a free ride at all other's expenses. No, thanks.



Antivaccers expect all others to share their risk. Here is where it starts to not be just individual choice and personal freedom, but runs into communal and social responsibility. Its not like deciding whether or not to get a tatoo or have a vegan meal on relgious holdiay or not - its a decision made on putting risks, costs, consequences on all others. That way you claim rights that are not yours, that nobody really has. Your right to make free choices ends where your choice denies that same right to the others and where you imply the other must compensate you for your choice. Thats what self responsibility really si about: to shouklder the consequences oyu cause yourself, and keep them away from the others so that the ymust not pay your bills and must not live your risks because you do not care for them.



Thats why I say many of those yellign about their rights, ion truthz are just brutal, careless egoists. Because where there are rights there also uzst be duties, and there can be no freedom without limits to your freedonm that prtects the others from your claims. If we do not have this, then we have anarchy and the law of the strongest. Granted, that is freedom. The freedom of the law of the jungle. Enjoy.



If the risk of not vaccinating would be limited and the economic consequences being reduced and limited to only the antivaccers themselves, I would not care. I would make sure they have this freedom, so that evolution can have its way and sort as many of them out as possible. But it is not that way. Their refusal affects me, and puts me at risk, my parents are put at risk, the econoym is at risk, the community is at risk - and all this is more at risk than is unavoidable due to the nature of this danger. Antivaccers claim the right to raise the costs for everybody, and to increase the risks for all others. And that is what I do not tolerate and where I turn against them wmith detemrination. I am unforgivable on them now. Enough is enough. It has been one and a half year!



That the arguments of antivaccers all too often are proxies for general politcial opposition, polarization, radicalisation, social and political dissatisfaction and so forth, does not make it better. Nor does it help that all too often I fail to see the reason or the logical content in anti-vaccers' arguments. Much oif what they say often simply is wrong. Conspiration. Provokation.



My tolerance has limits, and these are reached here. I have mocked and attacked Macronman so often in the past years that i think I can claim immunity from the suspicion that I have strong sympathies for him, but in his stand and policy, no matter his motives, this time he is right on target. If Amercans think it is bad in their country, I recommend they do not look at what France mulls in pressures for unvaccinated, it might cost them their sleep. Not to mention nations in Asia.



Also, this. Due to tourist ressorts' demand, the EU has - stupidly - allowed that US tourists can travel to Europe. And quite some of them bring in more support for the desease. The iofneciton comes with them like with any travelling wave anywhere. So their status in the US with the pandemic, affects us in Europe as well. In return, the US completely blocks even important business travels and visa and European tourists into the US. Even if they are vaccinated. Even if they are negatively tested. Even if they gained natural immmunity from having had Covid, and got completely healthy again. I do not crioticise the US for this. They dod the right ting there. The motives behind it may be the right ones or other ones, I do not care - its the effect I focus on.



We have seen it again and again and again and again. This needless international long range travelling tremendously speeds the pandemic. It should have been stopped long time ago. That it isn't, reflects the incompetence and lack of ethical responsibility in the political personnel. Holidays is no argument to claim permission that ferogn natiosn must let you on. You have to ask the wonwerts of other palces for permission. No matter whether you are tourist, business traveller, economic migrant or asylum seeker - you must ask for permission by the owner if the place you go to already is occupied and owned.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

The powers that be don't want that, if they did, their "mandates" and recommendations would be based on common sense of which they have very little if any.

This. So much this.

The messaging doesn't match the data. If the "authorities" were trust-worthy, their messaging would be something along the lines of "by the data we have, it's clear that x-y-z, but we're being risk-averse so we're recommending masks, distancing, etc. even though the data is inconclusive."

That, at least, I could understand. But when the messaging is "pay attention to the science, except when it is counter to our narrative. Don't pay attention to that science," it makes them less trustworthy than non-experts.