Mum appeals for US suspect's return

[August]

Originally Posted by Moonlight

Georgian diplomat ordered to remain in United States.

Well that is certainly an example although the circumstances are a bit different.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

Well that is certainly an example although the circumstances are a bit different.

Agreed

[Onkel Neal]

I believe when you're in a foreign country, their rules and laws apply to you. In this case, fleeing the country under diplomatic immunity instead of coming forward and giving testimony in the investigation is the kind of political-swamp behavior that gives us a bad name.

[August]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I believe when you're in a foreign country, their rules and laws apply to you. In this case, fleeing the country under diplomatic immunity instead of coming forward and giving testimony in the investigation is the kind of political-swamp behavior that gives us a bad name.

Well that is easy to say when you're not the one facing a couple decades in a foreign prison.

[Rockstar]

Sounds like a great idea. Don't like a diplomat then whisk them away during the night because, well, he broke one of our laws! However this https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instr...s/9_1_1961.pdf .prevents that from happening. Both the U.S. and Britain are in agreement with this convention. A government can ASK for a waiver but the othrer need not grant it. Leaving the only other choice to expell the diplomat.


I'm glad she claimed diplomatic immunity and left, I would have done the same thing. Last I heard that kid was left on the ground ALIVE for about 40 minutes before an ambulance arrived and he died in hospital. As I said before I would be terrified to be in a dreadful accident in a foreign land when the media drama and emotions run high and pretty much have condemned me before a trial. I would want to get the hell out of there.


Have your trial Id be interested to find out if his death could have been prevented had he received proper and timely treatment. According to other sources, Mrs Sacoolas stayed at the scene until the ambulance had arrived and police allowed her to leave. One only need to read this thread and understand why I think she did the right thing by claiming diplomatic immunity and left the country. It turned political hell even Trump was added to the argument here. That's pathetic and shows to me the poor woman would have never gotten a fair shake.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by August

Well that is easy to say when you're not the one facing a couple decades in a foreign prison.

Couple of decades?

The maximum is 14 years, the minimum is twelve months.

[Bilge_Rat]

Looks like a politically motivated prosecution to me. The U.S. is right to deny extradition since it does not appear mrs . Sacoolas would get a fair trial.

Based on what we know so far, there is no evidence to support a criminal charge of "dangerous driving" which implies either a wanton disregard for the consequences of her actions or intentional dangerous driving, neither of which can be supported by the facts as we know them.

1. Mrs Sacoolas left the base late at night;
2. She was accompanied by her teenage child in the car;
3. She had been in the UK for three weeks;
4. She had not been drinking alcohol or was under the influence of drugs;
5. After the accident, she called the police and stayed with mr.Dunn until they arrived;
6. She cooperated with police at the scene of the accident and submitted to a breathalyzer test.

The "dangerous driving" charge is only based on the fact that she was driving on the wrong side of the road, but UK prosecutors have to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. There is already more than reasonable doubt that this was just an unfortunate accident since: she had only been in the UK 3 weeks; it was late at night; she was not used to driving on the left side of the road.

If she did go back voluntarily, she would be denied bail and held in jail for 12-18 months or more until the trial, but even if found guilty, she is unlikely to receive more than 12-24 months in jail. If she is found innocent, as is likely, she will still have spent substantial time in a foreign jail.

The fact that the Crown Prosecutors know all that and would still charge her shows that they are caving in to mob pressure and that this is a political decision. Under the circumstances, mrs. Sacoolas could not get a fair trial in the UK given all the negative publicity and ongoing media circus.

She is right not to go back and U.S. courts will never agree to her extradition.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by August

Well that is easy to say when you're not the one facing a couple decades in a foreign prison.

If she's guilty of a crime. If not, what's the drama? Why would she not get a fair trial? Britain isn't a third-world country.

If it's ok for a diplomat to break the law and flee, then everyone should have the same right.

[August]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

If she's guilty of a crime. If not, what's the drama? Why would she not get a fair trial? Britain isn't a third-world country.

If it's ok for a diplomat to break the law and flee, then everyone should have the same right.

I think if you look at Bilge Rats post above it answers your questions pretty well Neal.

[Onkel Neal]

That list makes her look innocent of anything other than an accident. So, again, why should she be exempt from following the law in the country where the accident took place? Are we implying that the locals will ignore the evidence and throw her in the slammer? Are the British known for that kind of thing? Why would she be denied bail if she had stayed on hand like people are supposed to do?

Innocent people don't run.

[Rockstar]

Innocent people dont run, unless they have a reason to fear. Maybe she and others know something we dont about the British legal system and current political climate. One only need look at this thread and see more than a few of the usual politically driven comments and very little said about the actual case.


When after the accident the lad is left ALIVE on the ground waiting over 40 minutes for an ambulance and then to die later in hospital administered by the government. Does anyone think the British DHS is going to step up and say they may have been a contributing factor? Hell no, I imagine DHS/government will circle the wagons proclaiming Causing Death by Dangerous Driving and presto attention diverted and Ms. Sacoolas is now the sacrificial lamb.

[August]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

That list makes her look innocent of anything other than an accident. So, again, why should she be exempt from following the law in the country where the accident took place? Are we implying that the locals will ignore the evidence and throw her in the slammer? Are the British known for that kind of thing? Why would she be denied bail if she had stayed on hand like people are supposed to do?

Innocent people don't run.

Sure they do and "We" are not implying anything. It's easy for us to talk about appearances from the comfort of our easy chairs but she is the one facing prison for what was an accident until it suddenly became a crime.

Was she found to have been drinking or did she have a public hatred of the British? Has there been any revelation or change to the circumstances of the case to justify this charge? Because as far as I can tell Bilge Rat is right when he says this is politically motivated.

[Bilge_Rat]

Diplomatic immunity is not a "get out of jail free" card. It is often waived in cases of serious crimes, but there is the rub, the UK will have to present evidence that this was more than a simple accident which they have not done so far.

Last month, Mrs Sacoolas' lawyers were in talk for a "plea deal" with British prosecutors if she would avoid any jail time. The fact that the talks fell through strongly signals that the British want to send her to jail, no matter what the evidence shows.

[Rockstar]

The Experiences of an Old Man with the Criminal Justice System in the UK.
http://britishjustice.org/


When British Justice Died
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2019/07/when-british-justice-died-bruce-bawer/


British 'Justice': Poppycock
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1...tice-poppycock



The list of people and organizations fed up with the British justice system is a long one. Maybe U.S. officials knew this and got Ms Sacoolas out and are now attempting to work something out from more friendly ground. I wonder what the Dunn family is doing about the NHS and ambulance service? Or did British justice system tell them to go urinate up a rope?

1. Harry Dunn family suing Trump administration.
2. Harry Dunn family suing U.S. Foreign Office
3. Harry Dunn family suing Sacoolas
Not one word about suing Brit government run NHS where Harry Dunn died or the ambulance service that took its sweet time.


Dont get me wrong Im not trying to say the U.S. justice system is any better or worse. But the idea that a visitor in a foreign has nothing to fear is horse crap. IMO they need fear for the reason they are a very easy target. Especially if what BilgeRat has brought to light has even ounce of truth to it. The idea that somehow their poop dont stink like everyone else's is a load of b.s.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Innocent people dont run, unless they have a reason to fear. Maybe she and others know something we dont about the British legal system and current political climate. One only need look at this thread and see more than a few of the usual politically driven comments and very little said about the actual case.


When after the accident the lad is left ALIVE on the ground waiting over 40 minutes for an ambulance and then to die later in hospital administered by the government. Does anyone think the British DHS is going to step up and say they may have been a contributing factor? Hell no, I imagine DHS/government will circle the wagons proclaiming Causing Death by Dangerous Driving and presto attention diverted and Ms. Sacoolas is now the sacrificial lamb.

Sure is nice to know that here in the States, there has been absolutely no problems ,EVER, with our 911 system or our first responders!! No ambulances have ever been late or gone to the wrong address!! Isn't it amazing how perfect we are here in the States!!



You make it sound like the UK is some third world country, and the lives of their people aren't worth worrying about. Just write it off as a "Too Bad!!" but that's life incident. Of course if this happened to someone in your family, you would want the death sentence for whoever did it. Funny how that works, part of your Conservative Christian views I suppose,lol Those views aren't worth the toilet paper they are written on !!


Wonder what anyone from the UK, who has been through our justice system thinks of it,lol Seriously doubt they would call it Christian!! Just ask the Americans who have been locked up in it for decades, and come to find out they are innocent, and set free. Yup, our justice system is perfect, make no mistake about that!! What a bunch of BS you are spreading around, should get a job on a farm, could use you to spread manure everywhere!