Neutral ships in GWX question

[ChrisPhoenix]

So yesterday i attacked a convoy, picked out two targets and managed to hit and sink them both.
However: the first one that sunk turned into the typical red map symbol of the sunken ship. The second one sank a bit later and turned into a black one. Was that a neutral one? Every ship had no lights on and since they traveled inside the convoy i just assumed they were enemys. It was too dark to see their flags tho.
Is there any kind of message or something, that lets me know if i sank a neutral or friendly one? How do i know?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by ChrisPhoenix

So yesterday i attacked a convoy, picked out two targets and managed to hit and sink them both.
However: the first one that sunk turned into the typical red map symbol of the sunken ship. The second one sank a bit later and turned into a black one. Was that a neutral one? Every ship had no lights on and since they traveled inside the convoy i just assumed they were enemys. It was too dark to see their flags tho.
Is there any kind of message or something, that lets me know if i sank a neutral or friendly one? How do i know?

The sunken ship icon can act strange/confusing at times. Threads on the subject have all kinds of opinions of what is what.

But I believe generally, a black one is one you sunk but didn't see, weren't in the immediate area, sunk later, etc.

Neutrals in an enemy convoy aren't an issue in GWX.

[ChrisPhoenix]

Wow that was a quick answer. Thank you!

So does that mean there are none in GWX? Because i remember stock silent hunter had them. But since the map symbols were colored it wasn't an issue.
Is it save to assume that every ship without the lights on is an enemy?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by ChrisPhoenix

Wow that was a quick answer. Thank you!

So does that mean there are none in GWX? Because i remember stock silent hunter had them. But since the map symbols were colored it wasn't an issue.
Is it save to assume that every ship without the lights on is an enemy?

Most if not all megamods removed the neutrals from enemy convoys.


Yes, anything without lights can be sunk. Ships that shouldn't be will have their flags WELL lit up with two lights.


Can be seen for miles at night. The lights will be on during the day too.

[K-61]

You can also edit the file data\cfg\basic and go down to the line in the RENOWN section and edit the line neutral to = 1. This way you do not suffer a hit for sinking a neutral. My rational is that a neutral inside a belligerent convoy is carrying contraband to the enemy.

I use this discretely, just for convoys, and not as an excuse to sink any neutral for the purposes of running up the tonnage score.

[ChrisPhoenix]

Originally Posted by K-61

You can also edit the file data\cfg\basic and go down to the line in the RENOWN section and edit the line neutral to = 1. This way you do not suffer a hit for sinking a neutral. My rational is that a neutral inside a belligerent convoy is carrying contraband to the enemy.

I use this discretely, just for convoys, and not as an excuse to sink any neutral for the purposes of running up the tonnage score.

You have a good point there. Tho it is kind of cheating because it is against the "gamerules". I think that at some point at my second patrol i received a radio message saying that any neutral that might carry goods to england can be sunk.

I don't feel so good about changing stuff manually in any files. I fear that i might ruin my savegame.

[Jeff-Groves]

It would have been nice IF the Games were coded to remove the neutral statis from ships if in a convoy.
But hindsight is 20/20

Myself? I'd change WrongShipSunk=-5000 to WrongShipSunk=0
You don't take the hit for a Neutral but they are still Neutral.

[ChrisPhoenix]

I just played a little bit and had a strange encounter:

Near the coast of denmark i came across a merchant. completely dark, no lights whatsoever. I was suspicious because it was unlikely to be an enemy ship that near to german territory. Since the sea was calm i ordered to man the deck gun, but held fire until i was very close. Luckily for the merchant. The captain must have had a death wish or something. It was indeed danish and therefore neutral (Dec. 1939). So much for well lit flags i guess...

[Jeff-Groves]

Not all flags are lit up.
Part of the Fog of War.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by ChrisPhoenix

I just played a little bit and had a strange encounter:

Near the coast of denmark i came across a merchant. completely dark, no lights whatsoever. I was suspicious because it was unlikely to be an enemy ship that near to german territory. Since the sea was calm i ordered to man the deck gun, but held fire until i was very close. Luckily for the merchant. The captain must have had a death wish or something. It was indeed danish and therefore neutral (Dec. 1939). So much for well lit flags i guess...

Sink it anyway; lights out. Perhaps it was neutral in name only. Contraband runner <g>.

I've done many campaigns GWX, NYGM, and a modified 8k. Have yet to find a neutral in any convoy that also has enemy ships.

Ships in convoys = targets.

[Jeff-Groves]

BBW did the scripting for GWX.
As far as I remember? There should be no neutrals in Convoys.
But I don't recall stuff as well as I did years ago.
And what is a convey anyway?

[ChrisPhoenix]

Thanks everybody. I will keep that in mind. I don't think i got punished for anything since i returned to port with around 45000 brt and got plenty of renown. Tho gwx seems to give out far less. Two of my officers got an iron cross second class and i did not...

May i ask another question, although it has nothing to do with the original topic?
I tried to use the recognition manual to measure the targets speed but it just doesn't work. You know, lengh divided by seconds times two... In Wolfpack this works fantastic but in SH3 something seems weird. Since i play with map symbols on, i have plenty of other methods to calculate speed, but i tried to use this just to confirm things. But lets say the map tells me the target is going at 11 knots, when i try to use the manual it's always around 6 or 7. Thats a big difference even tho i'm certain that i identified the ship correctly.
What am i doing wrong? It is as if the stats in the manual are just not correct for the ship models.

Wow sorry, that was a big chunk of text...

[Pisces]

Are you not forgetting to multiply length over seconds by two (roughly) to get knots? As your result seems to be halve of what you should get.

1 nautical miles per hour is 0.514 meter per seconds. So in order to get the precise speed in knots, length over time should be multiplied by 1.944 (3600/1852) But your length and timing accuracy will not be as good so don't bother and go with the above.

[ChrisPhoenix]

I am sure i am not forgetting to multiply by 2 at the end. I did not know it was 1.94 but the result should not be that different...

[Pisces]

Then the only cause I can think of is that you are moving forward and looking on a different bearing than 0 or 180, and skewing the timing of the passage with your own speed across the line of sight.