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03-20-14, 12:11 PM | #751 |
Lucky Jack
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I know where you're coming from with your concern Skybird, but I think that if America does decide to take itself out of the European picture (and honestly, who can blame it with the abuse that has been hurled its way by Europeans over the past fifty years?) and Russia and China decide to seek closer ties (and again, who can blame them? Russia was snubbed by Europe and America so it turns to the only other partner it has, the PRC) then the only way that we can present a credible deterrant to any thoughts of Russian expansion in Europe either militarily or politically is through a united front, and the only united front in Europe is the EU.
Naturally this will be abused, just as the original ideals behind the EEC were abused, just as the post-wall agreements with Russia were abused, but equally alone and scattered we cannot present a credible political power, the days of the Empires are long gone, we individually do not have the industry or economy to be a rival to the likes of China, Russia or the US. I think that there will be a day soon where Europe will come to a fork in the road, probably around the time that the US economy receives another nasty hiccup and we are not prepared for it. The choice will be thus, split up and return to the Europe of old, warring, bickering, easy prey for the superpowers around us, or consolidate into a superstate in order to keep Europe relevant on the world stage, and this choice will set up the new century of global politics. |
03-20-14, 02:21 PM | #752 |
Fleet Admiral
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@ Skybird, very interesting post you wrote.
I think I believe why China refuse to go with Russia proposal China is the country who has lent USA most money and they have a lot of money "tied" in USA. I don't think it is in China's interest to see their money go down the drain. Markus |
03-20-14, 02:37 PM | #753 | |
Fleet Admiral
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Quote:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...30213?irpc=932 |
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03-20-14, 02:45 PM | #754 | |
Ocean Warrior
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Don't think china wants to waste all the time and effort for nothing. |
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03-20-14, 04:14 PM | #755 |
Chief of the Boat
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MONEY makes the world go around.
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03-20-14, 04:51 PM | #756 |
Stowaway
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03-20-14, 05:18 PM | #757 | |
Soaring
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BTW, the Chinese buy gold and Western economic key assets and hightech companies like crazy. They now hold probbaly over 10,000 tons in gold - enough for founding a gold currency. Actually they buy even more gold, but only a frac tion of their buyings goes into the state'S treausry, much also is for private jewelry, collectors, and industry. The Chinese want global dominance, and America stands in their way. Go figure. And their primary way of conquest has always been not military war, but trade, and fiscal treaties. That is what made the ancient Chinese empires great, and overwhelmingly rich. If it gives them what they want, they will swallow the losses they suffer form a dollar collapse, and push the button to start it. You should not forget that every week they already loose billions and billions due to the devaluing policy of the FED. And for some reason that remains to be an American secret, Ameria seriously thinks they will continue to just accept these enormous losses at their own cost until the end of time.
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03-20-14, 05:35 PM | #758 | |
Soaring
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I would say they have established plenty of bridheheads in our countries, and Africa, increasingly in South America as well. The next step will be to drive America out of control of international institutions controlling the internaitopnal patterns of currency flows, like the word bank, the IMF, and the options Ameica can benefit of by having most deals on resources and almost all oil deals done in dollar. Therefore, destrying the dollar dominance is a priority for them. They will not shy away from doing so just because of a minor blowback. Once again: its all about Realpolitik. Their own credit bubble they allowed to grow in an effort to speed up their preparations, is a bigger threat to them than a collapsing dollar regime.
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03-20-14, 06:32 PM | #759 | |||
Soaring
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Militarily, we cannot defend against that loss of weight we suffer from in the world. Also, demographically, native Europeans are in decline, compared to the global population. A military union controlled by the EU just will bring Burssel into more control that people have no counter control over, if not by rules and treaties, than Brussel will grab that influence through the backdoor, by having heads of governments conspirating (?) with its interests. The show gets run like that all the time anyway. It is a politila elite accumulating more and more power and control, and claiming more and more submission by the people, while not allowing checks and balances. Just look at this damn free trade treaty the now dow between the eU and the US. The US heavily benefits from it, while European consumers have heavy risks and losses from it, it all is done in total secrecy, gets negotiated behind locked doors, and governments in Europe try to hide all continent of the treaty from their own parliaments - which nevertheless should weave it though without being told about the content, and reflecting about the dangerous implications. This agreement is not about "free trade", but the opposite of it, it widens the rights of monopolists, allows monopolists and corporations to sue governments threatening to limit their profits by laws for better environment protection or health protection, and aims at destroying the free market and free trading that it claims to guarantee, also it wants to impose inferior US consumer protection standards on all Europeans and wants to enforce market accesses for critical products that in the past has been refused to be given permission to be sold on European markets, over health and safety concerns, and others. And an criminal political elite like this, that sells its own people and for the people'S disadvantage, and that wants to save its own privileges in the face of troubleful times ahead, this amok running elite you want to give more powers and tools of influence and control? No, I do not accept that, and instead argue for a lowering of our claims and standards regarding the role we want to play in the world. We must not and cannot play a domiant role anymore, our powerbasis is too eroded for that, and I do not want that to be abused as an excuse to help dictatorship being erected. It will come by itself anyway, all socialism leads to tyranny, necessarily - but at least I can refuse to actively help it and speed it up. We have had this kind of thinking, strong state and united power in few hands. It did not work too well last time (Warsaw Pact), and not the time before (Third Reich). that leaves me outside any options that could materialise, and I know that. Libertarianism is dead. Freedom is dead. (And I would argue that in Germany it never has had the chance to form a tradition anyway, like it had in England). It has the right thinking, and provides the correct diagnosis for the present diseases. But in this corrupted, FUBARed world, it is up against overwhelming odds. That's why I never am optimistic about the future. The future I forsee, is not bright. Not for Europe, and not for the world. Quote:
"Europe" to me always necessarily implies the plural. And the bickering states, the chodlish Kinergarden of states, always has been there, and is now, just almost covered by a thin layer of blue paint. In side the EU, the rules get constantly broken by players. Also, there is strong emotional power in the regions and local places around Europe, more and more people have enough of this corrupted EU, and claim greater independence form Brussel, or even their own central states. People do not want to get ruled by an imperial central govenrment, at best they support it for the most only becasue they hpe for moeny raining fromn heaven if they do. Big scepticism is spreading, and it is not only deserved, but fully justified. So, we would be qwell advised to tone down our lectures tot eh rest of the world, we shgoulkd secure the ablity to make any miliztary attack on our countries an extremnely costly operastion for the aggressor, and beyond that - like America seems to do - not exlpand any firther, but deflate, and olretty much so, sticking to our lands, reducing the insane levels of moeny wasting in our social wellfare systems, get a different soical and cultural climate established where we again foucs more on own repsonsibility and responsibility for our family, instead of leaving both to the state, and we need to find answers for the dramatic demographic chnage in our over-aging societies. Quantity cannot be our way anymore, but quality. Many of our problems are not just strucural problems, but problems of a devastated culture, a lack of humanistic education that can differ populistic nonsense from matters that really count. That we have so many elite benefitting from leaving out problems unadressed, and even deepening them, does not really help, of course. Ah, so much would be needed to chnage. And so little we will dare to do. there is no solution, and i think no happy end to all this. We will be like many civilizations before us: glorious rise, fantastic climax, silent fall. It seems man is not made for creating something that really lasts. Ironically, religions understand what I mean better than most others. Of course relgous institutions only are after their own power interests, but I mean people that feel like being religious, while keeping away from the religious mainstream and the institutions and dogmas. It is funny that there once were a Franciscan monk here in my hometown, and even in Teheran a cleric, both knew that I were atheist and (at that time) called myself a Buddhist - and nevertheless we found that both of these and I were much closer to reach other in thinking, than I am to many others, atheists, and the mainstream opinion holders anyway.
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03-20-14, 10:20 PM | #760 |
Fleet Admiral
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03-21-14, 05:12 AM | #761 |
Fleet Admiral
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This bloke raises some interesting points, though his last sentence should have been better edited. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/ukrain...320-355ow.html
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03-22-14, 10:00 AM | #762 |
Lucky Jack
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Belbak airfield being assaulted by Russian/pro-Russian forces, BTR-80 has knocked down the front gate and an ambulance has arrived. A UAZ has also just appeared. It seems that someone attempted to smash the camera from the ground a few moments before the BTR-80 went for the gate but failed.
EDIT: Camera now torn down by Russian/pro-Russian forces. One person injured during the assault and shots were fired. Last edited by Oberon; 03-22-14 at 11:05 AM. |
03-22-14, 12:16 PM | #763 |
Lucky Jack
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The Russian Navy has taken control of Ukraines only submarine, a Foxtrot class.
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03-22-14, 12:36 PM | #764 |
Navy Seal
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03-22-14, 12:40 PM | #765 |
Ace of the Deep
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nato, putin, ukraina, ukraine, ukrajna |
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