SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2019, 09:46 AM   #646
Schroeder
Fun Terminator
 
Schroeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banana Republic of Germany
Posts: 6,289
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
12 July 1944
The fighting continues for a few more days, but neither side makes any more serious attempts. The Battle of Äyräpää-Vuosalmi comes to an end, and with it the Soviet offensive on the Karelian Isthmus.
It's hard to believe that Finland was able to stop a full Soviet offensive with the few units it had.
__________________
Putting Germ back into Germany.
Schroeder is online   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 09:58 AM   #647
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
It's hard to believe that Finland was able to stop a full Soviet offensive with the few units it had.
To be fair, Berlin was becoming the primary objective at this point, so forces were transferred there from the Karelian Isthmus, especially after it was becoming clear that the Finnish lines would not break as easily as planned. The Red Army was given 8 days after the fall of Viipuri on 20 June to reach the 1940 border.

That being said, it was close. What kinda irritates me is that in Finland everyone speaks about the 'Miracle of the Winter War', but the defensive victories in Tali-Ihantala, Siiranmäki and Vuosalmi on the Isthmus are often overlooked.

Artillery played a huge role, considering how little we had. But the system developed allowed for the FO to give simple corrections (200 left for example) and multiple batteries would do the calculations on their end, and could fire to very small areas with all their guns in a couple of minutes.


But, the war is not yet over.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2019, 05:11 AM   #648
STEED
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Down Town UK
Posts: 27,196
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 48


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
the war is not yet over.
Yep part three is yet to come, I take it Dowly the Lapland War will be in a new thread?

Well done mate for your hard work.
__________________
A good reason not to vote any more -
Never trust the government never trust a politician.
STEED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2019, 01:42 PM   #649
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED View Post
Yep part three is yet to come, I take it Dowly the Lapland War will be in a new thread?
I haven't decided yet. There are lots of things going on with regards to the Continuation War as the Lapland War is on, so might just keep it all here.

***

13 July 1944

21st Brigade withdraws from Porajärvi in Ladoga Karelia.

Finnish daily losses: 306


One of Lagus' StuGs in Vuosalmi.

***

14 July 1944

Flight Regiment 4 begins a four-day operation bombing enemy troop concentrations in Äyräpää area.

Marshal Mannerheim visits HQ of the Isthmus Forces and gives his thanks to the troops.

Soviet Ambassador Aleksandra Kollontai informs that if Finland is willing to propose peace talks, the Soviet Union is listening.

Finnish daily losses: 184


Destroyed KV at Ihantala.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2019, 07:40 AM   #650
STEED
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Down Town UK
Posts: 27,196
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 48


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
I haven't decided yet. There are lots of things going on with regards to the Continuation War as the Lapland War is on, so might just keep it all here.
Just put it up in bold letter when it starts. Looking at Germany's allies I am of the opinion out of the main allies Finland put up a dam good fight and were not stupid like some of the other allies that were bloody millstone's around Germany's kneck.
__________________
A good reason not to vote any more -
Never trust the government never trust a politician.
STEED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2019, 12:39 PM   #651
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED View Post
Just put it up in bold letter when it starts.
Not until September.

***

15 July 1944

Soviet offensive to break the U-line begins in 5th Division's sector.

Major Siitonen's I/IR44 lost it's positions quickly in the beginning of the battle. First the "Maksimoff" line was broken and by noon the "ridgeline" positions of III/IR44 were overrun northwest of Nietjärvi. The enemy continued to advance north towards Maalammenmäki and west to widen the breach.
5th Division artillery played an important role in containing the breach. The division had 11 Artillery Battalions at its disposal along with coastal guns in the area. Various artillery pieces fired a total of 20,000 rounds during the day, more than had been fired at Tali-Ihantala in any given day.
Major General Martola's VI AK reinforced the 5th Division with two battalions from 15th Brigade (15.Pr). Major Väänänen's IV/15.Pr was immediately given orders to attack to the shore of Nietjärvi from northeast to prevent the enemy from widening the breakthrough to the east. Captain Kujari's I/15.Pr was to attack against the enemy west of Teirisuo and throw them back. Together with Major Pokkanen's II/IR45, the enemy at Teirisuo was pushed back during the evening and the following night.



Finnish daily losses: 299


Soviet POW showcases his body armor. (Syskyjärvi)

Last edited by Dowly; 07-17-2019 at 05:28 AM.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 05:34 AM   #652
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

16 July 1944

The bulge in Nietjärvi area caused by the enemy breakthrough is contained and encircled. During the day and following night, Soviet regiments fight themselves out of the encirclement or are destroyed nearly to the last man.



*

Soviet bombers sink the German anti-aircraft cruiser Niobe in Kotka harbor thinking it was the Finnish Coastal Ship Väinämöinen.

Finnish daily losses: 323


Machine gun position in Suojärvi area.

***

17 July 1944

One of Detachment Vehniäinen's long-range patrols on the Isthmus report that empty trains are heading towards the front. This is the first sign to the Finns that the offensive has stopped.

*

Fighting starts in the Lemetti-Suojärvi area, as Soviet forces try to breach the U-line there.



Finnish daily losses: 346
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 06:53 AM   #653
STEED
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Down Town UK
Posts: 27,196
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 48


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
Not until September.


I can wait.
__________________
A good reason not to vote any more -
Never trust the government never trust a politician.
STEED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 08:16 AM   #654
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

18 July 1944

Aunus Group is disbanded and its forces are transferred under VI Army Corps.

Fortification works begin on the Isthmus to prepare fall back positions in case of a renewed Soviet offensive. Work on the Salpa-line also continues.

Finnish and German planes hit Soviet positions on both sides of River Vuoksi in Äyräpää and Vuosalmi.

Finnish daily losses: 134


Colonel Hanste (IR12) at his command post. (Ihantala)


U-line trenches at Lemetti.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 05:56 AM   #655
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

19 July 1944

Finnish 1st Division's counter-attacks fail in lake Vegarusjärvi area to the north of the U-line.

Finnish daily losses: 94


Private Pihlajamaa stands before a drumhead court-martial. He is sentenced to death for deserting three times. (15th Brigade/Nietjärvi)


Private Pihlajamaa moments before being executed by a firing squad.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 08:42 AM   #656
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 134,486
Downloads: 49
Uploads: 11


Default

Three times?
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 08:59 AM   #657
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,333
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
Three times?
Yep. The caption doesn't offer any more details other than he had served a 2,5 year solitary confinement sentence before to this for desertion.

His records, however, have been digitized, so from those I can see he first was sentenced for desertion on 29 October 1941, next was on 3 March 1942. His last desertion was on 9 July 1944 and was sentenced to death ten days later on 19 July He was 28yo and got married during the interim peace, they had one child.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:25 AM   #658
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 134,486
Downloads: 49
Uploads: 11


Default

I guess he was set in his ways then.
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 02:12 AM   #659
Schroeder
Fun Terminator
 
Schroeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banana Republic of Germany
Posts: 6,289
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
I guess he was set in his ways then.
Depends. The question is if he deserted willingly with the intention to leave his comrades behind or whether he just couldn't take it anymore and snapped in combat (like the engineer in Das Boot). If it's the latter then he's just another victim of the war and not really a criminal in my books.
__________________
Putting Germ back into Germany.
Schroeder is online   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 05:26 AM   #660
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 134,486
Downloads: 49
Uploads: 11


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Depends. The question is if he deserted willingly with the intention to leave his comrades behind or whether he just couldn't take it anymore and snapped in combat (like the engineer in Das Boot). If it's the latter then he's just another victim of the war and not really a criminal in my books.
It would be interesting to know the facts behind each incident if they were recorded at the time (in written form).
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
continuation war , jatkosota

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2019 Subsim